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Yo likes the movie too

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Visionary 
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Member Since: Sat Jan 03, 2004
Posts: 2,131
Subj: Re: Okay, let's go there. [SPOILERS!!!!!!]
Posted: Sun May 06, 2012 at 03:01:58 am EDT (Viewed 2 times)
Reply Subj: Re: Okay, let's go there. [SPOILERS!!!!!!]
Posted: Sat May 05, 2012 at 06:49:07 pm EDT (Viewed 484 times)

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    I too was waiting for a "Goldilocks" comment that never came, I have to say.


    The problem is that a smartass Tony Stark robs Clint of a lot of his lines. The "mother's drapes" quip could as easily have been real Hawkeye's dialogue. The other defining aspect of Barton is his showmanship and that was a bit sparse too. Contrast with the Avengers cartoon: the one I re-watched this week had Hawkeye bursting in with "Relax, guys, I'm here to save the world!"


Admittedly, the Avengers cartoon has captured what makes Hawkeye such a great character. Renner is too much the overly-cool "Ultimate" Hawkeye, and it makes him rather dull by comparison. In all honesty, if they had to cut somebody to make room for a new Avenger next time, Hawkeye would top my list... and that surprises and kinda saddens me.


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    The alien-craft-sky-snake things were neat they way they swam through the air.


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    I really like the Thor-IM fight scene in the mountain region.



    I liked Cap breaking it up, with the answer to that classic Mjolnir vs shield fan debate.


I liked that not only did the heroes get their own big moments, their iconic weapons did as well. Cap's shield deflecting the energy of Mjolnir, Iron Man's suit hitting "400%" capacity, and Hulk completely failing to lift Mjolnir.

And I will give credit to Hawkeye's automated quiver... that was pretty cool. I'm quite annoyed that Black Widow wears those bracelets and yet only uses tiny handguns in the big fight scenes. In all honesty, they looked pathetically inadequate, and how much cooler would it have been to fire widow's stings, gatling-gun style from the cartridges circling her wrists?


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    I quite liked Loki in this. His army made for fun cannon fodder. I would hope in the sequel that they would give us a few more villains for the team to face off against, though. I'm not talking about a random jumble of unrelated villains, but some substantial henchmen that can be more than just fodder. Whedon gave us this, in a way, but I can't really say more without spoilers.


    Marvel has really done the whole massive army of adversaries thing for a while now, after all those Stanebots in Iron Man 2, frost giants in Thor, and now the alien invaders in Avengers. I think a different kind of threat would work better for Avengers 2. Perhaps masters of... evil?


I do wish they had at least taken a page from Video Games, and thrown a few mid-level boss characters in there to add variety to the fight... Especially for Captain America, who was stuck on the ground. Even "Raiders of the Lost Arc" knew that after watching Indy punch out half of the Nazi army, you needed to put him up against a big, shirtless guy under a flying wing. Some visually larger alien monster officer or super-trooper for Cap to beat up in more of a struggle would have kept it from seeming like his part in the finale was lesser.



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    I won't spoil who it is - even though his thread is now marked spoils, but I would wonder how they can pull him off as the next vision without it being a similar "demi-god from myth" type thing. Which may seem like too much of a repeat of Loki. I have to admit my jaw dropped when I saw him grin but. Didn't yours?

    I loved the statement that provoked the grin.


That was indeed a great set-up for that particular villain reveal... and it likely meant absolutely nothing to 95% of audiences. I admire that.

However, what I was alluding to, pre-spoilers, was actually the idea that Hawkeye filled the role of Loki's kick-ass henchman... Only, he was "cured" and changed sides before the final battle, which removed a big interest from the villain's side and left only the leader and cannon fodder.



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    They could easily retcon-tie-in Carol Danvers as Ms Marvel to using him as a villain too, to bring in another female avenger next time.


    Ms Marvel doesn't interest me all that much. The only iconic characters now missing are Wanda and the Vision. And since each of the current team exemplify a major and different background - super soldier, technology hero, mythical deity, monster of science, superspy, and highly-skilled showman archer - I don't think Carol's different enough. Mutant witch and synthezoid are.

    Still, now we know why the cosmic cube keeps getting such a high profile!


I'd enjoy Ms. Marvel, although if they were going to use her I would have put Carol Danvers in Maria Hill's role. I think, however, there might be deleted scenes with Maria Hill, as from actor's statements I expected there to be more about her in the film... Samuel Jackson said multiple times that they don't see eye-to-eye, and that she's much more in the pocket of that shadowy commission... Yet I never really saw evidence of this in the final film.

I think the Wasp would be a great addition, although apparently Whedon tried to work her in with earlier scripts and just couldn't get it to work, so she was cut. I'll be curious to see if they ever get Ant-man off the ground and introduce Pym and her.

On the subject of future Avengers, I've heard the repeated, completely-baseless theory that Agent Coulson was going to end up being the Vision... and I actually wouldn't mind that having some truth to it now that they've apparently killed him (although I found the scene somewhat suspicious.) I've never felt you needed Simon Williams to make the Vision work, the interesting thing about him in that regards is just the question of whether he's his own man or just a copy of another. Basing his brain waves off of Coulson connects the audience and the Avengers to that question in an emotional way, without having to introduce and kill off Williams (a character that Whedon has said he'll never add to the team anyway.)


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    I agree Jarvis was not Jarvis was a bit of a let down, but then on reflection I'm glad they gave him a nod at all, I guess.


    Jarvis and Avengers Mansion are by far the biggest omissions, affecting the whole tone of the story. A little Gyrich might have been fun too.

    I would have liked a little supporting cast interaction. I wanted Pepper Potts, Betty Ross, and Jane Foster comparing notes. I wanted Nick Fury to stamp down hard on Thunderbolt Ross.


I was really hoping for a hint that the mansion was going to be introduced at the end... More as a place where they could get together out from under SHIELD's eye.

I also was checking all of the names in the video reports at the end, but I didn't see any that I recognized. Unfortunately, Gyrich might not be available... Fox used him (and killed him) in the first X-men movie. If they actually have a role planned out for her, I'm guessing Hill was introduced so that she could supply that kind of antagonism.


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    Agreed. I hope there is less SHIELD stuff in the future though.

    It's why we need Avengers mansion - not Avengers tower.


I liked that they established that none of the big 4 trust SHIELD, making it feel less like they're some SHIELD task force.




Enjoying this thread. But what about other comics nods you and others mentioned earlier?. I don´t know that much of Marvel U. to catch them.

And about having the vision...always that they make him look cool(visually) and not robotic at all(personality wise). And i don´t know if that will be easy to do in movies. Otherwise don´t use him. They already changed IM and HW personalities-if I were a fan of the last one I would be really upset with the movie-, and I am fine with it, but Vision´s personality was too good in the early years to mess up with.





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