Tales of the Parodyverse >> View Post
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Post By
Anime Jason 
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Location: Here
Member Since: Sun Sep 12, 2004
Posts: 2,834
In Reply To
HH

Subj: Excelent.
Posted: Sat Mar 03, 2012 at 10:25:02 am EST (Viewed 410 times)
Reply Subj: Jolly good
Posted: Sat Mar 03, 2012 at 07:54:30 am EST (Viewed 1 times)



    Quote:
    One downside of this kind of board is that replies sometimes come to be held as a measure of quality. Really, a sample of 10 people isn't enough to give a fair reflection of that; especially since this board's traditional subject matter is very atypical and might arguably draw a very skewed audience.


I didn't reallt think of it as a measure of quality, since at least two of the (former?) board regulars made no secret that they either don't like my stuff or are only here to read your stuff and/or Visionary's. I can't really do anything about that, it's like writing issues of a Supergirl series and trying to get someone who refuses to read any comic written by you, or any comic with a female lead. It's just not going to happen.

The part that does concern me is when people who used to read my stuff blatantly stop reading it (they're still here, reply to other stuff, etc). I start to feel like either I'm losing what I had, or I never had it in the first place and I'm losing the audience because I didn't manage to improve enough. I try to diagnose the problem, like maybe that last miniseries was too long, or contained thr wrong characters, etc., but when I don't see anything obvious I become a bit self-critical.



    Quote:
    It seems to me that you enjoy writing for the sake of writing. There are stories in your head that you want to tell. Like most everyone else, you'd like it if people enjoyed your efforts and appreciated them, but your primary motivation is "art for art's sake". This is good. Low readership can be fixed. Motivation for writing can't.


I do like writing, but at the same time I feel a little discouraged when nobody else seems to like it. It feels different from eating a food nobody else wants to eat, because writing feels more personal and more permanent. I feel like I have lots of stories that only I want to hear.

The other thing I often think about is whether the characters themselves are the problem. More on that further down.



    Quote:
    I'm sorry if I missed any World Class, by the way. I try to read and resply to all your work.


I have an entirely new series of it that I've been slowly writing but havent't posted. It's what I write for fun these days.



    Quote:
    To some extent the negative comments can be the most useful. Where a reader's unconvinced about a motivation or plot twist it tells you you need to do a better job of selling that story point, or setting it up, or explaining it. It underlines technique weaknesses to work on.


In general I don't mind negative comments. The only kind that annoys me is when I take a risk with a character that's not mine because either nobody else is using it, or nobody is posting to the board, and I get a sort of "how dare you" response, and I'm told I should have either tracked down the original poster-character before starting, or if I can't reach them, don't use the character at all.

And that's only when the "risk" wasn't something particularly damaging, just something like, say, Hatman allowing Chiaki to take the lead on something because she actually has a good plan. I used to do that, and I got a lot of "Hat would never allow anyone else ever under any circumstances take the lead, go rewrite the story with him as the lead or take him out entirely". So mostly now I do the latter, and find a way for him to be either doing something unrelated, or that Chiaki has to solve a problem without him around, or that she takes it on as her own problem, etc.

The reason why that annoys me is because it does not really have anything to do with the story or help with it, it's instead a way of invalidating the whole thing, sometimes even a multiparter. If you notice, a couple times when that happened, I just made that character fall off the map after part 1, because no resolution was better than losing readers over an unwelcome one.



    Quote:
    And pragmatically, no comments is no criticism. You're no worse off than when it was just on your hard drive.


That's where World Class is now.



    Quote:
    The other point I'd make is that most if not all of your characters don't fit the classic mould for the shared PV universe. They're not broadly-drawn slightly humerous characters like Visionary, Donar, Dancer, Mumphrey, Finny et. al. They're really "serious comics universe" characters existing in a slightly absurd one. The PV format is broad enough that they can do so relatively comfortably, but they're the wrong kind of horses in the wrong kind of race to win every time here. I'm not arguing you shouldn't tell PV stories with them - I'm very glad you're doing so - but it seems as though you could do more with them outside that frame too.


i have both - Yuki Shiro, including her name, is a parody of every Shirow manga character there is, from Ghost in the Shell on. Anna, likewise, is a parody if every intelligent, highly emotional synthetic person in manga and anime, and in fact she is heavily based on Kosmos from Xenosaga and I vaguely remember some reference to Battle Angel Alita and some others as well. Faite is a parody most people didn't catch. She is like a half goddess and half magical elf parody. So all of those wouldn't really do well outside of the PV.

Chiaki started out as an imitation of the lead character from the live action movie Princess Blade, and named after one of the actresses in Kill Bill, but grew into something entirely her own. She might be able to survive outside of the PV, and can definitely survive without support inside of the PV.

I don't remember what prompted the creation of Liu Xi Xian, but she too grew beyond her initial purpose. Because of her power set though, she either needs the PV or her own entire universe.

Shen Rae also comes out of Xenosaga, the concept of a space captain who works for a corporation, but who was hired because she has beyond human abilities. But then it becomes a little Star Trek and Outlaw Star after that.

For a little trivia, Lara Night was long ago originally created for another shared universe full of characters stolen from both DC and Marvel. I didn't want the other writers there abusing my characters, so I brainstomed someone that was very difficult to understand. I'm fascinated by the mystery of lightning and electricity and energy, so I used those as a basis. And originally she was very mysterious and difficult to motivate, like Faite is now, She worked so well as a complex character that she got me kicked out of that shared universe. Then I had a problem, because she grew so deep and complex that even I had trouble building a cast for her. The PV helped me with that a bit, because it helped me mold her as a problem solver who only needs a few close friends.

But history aside, I do think sometimes that because these characters are such drastically different and unique concepts, maybe the PV readers can't relate them to anything they already know, and therefore are turned off to reading them. The same problem creator owned comics often have.



    Quote:
    Everybody cringes at their work from a decade ago. I know I do.


I would like to burn it all.



    Quote:
    Finding an audience is a perennial problem for new writers. The average first self-published novel sells in the low hundreds if its lucky. Without a marketing budget and free review copies and publishers' networks its very hard to bring the work to mass attention. It happens, but those are rare lucky exceptions.


I have noticed, amusingly enough, that JK Rowling seems to do the same stream-of-consciousness wandering off in the Harry Potter books that I do. It makes the HP books really long. Of course she has the gift of being able to manage a gigantic cast without losing anyone, too.
]


    Quote:
    I think you have all the skills necessary to write good fiction. I think your technical and practical skills have increased over the time I've read your work. I think it's fit to publish.


What I see though is my story progression is weak, and my ability to bookend a story - create a clear beginning and end, and stay on course - is also weak.



    Quote:
    That said, I also think you could push it up a notch. You're good at self analysis, so you know (and have even mentioned in this thread) ways you could bring your game up. I have to admit, I apply different criteria re. proofing and second drafting when I'm writing PV stories than when I'm writing stuff people are paying me for. I could do better with my PV stuff, but it's beyond the level of effort I'm willing to invest, or indeed have time for.


I've posted a lot of PV stuff that I knew wasn't very good because I didn't have the time to write something else that week, or because I already started posting the story and I can't stop in the middle.

Sometimes though I get the feling I already lost the audience, and I rush to get through the rest, not really caring how it turns out.



    Quote:
    At the end of the day, if you publish and "fail" at least you've had the experience of writing an A-game story, which is bound to improve your regular game anyhow. Even if only three people ever read the damn thing, the people who read the next thing you write will benefit from the process you've been through.


Here's the thing about that: If something I write starring Lara Night fails, I feel like I failed the character, someone I "grew up with" and molded for years and years. And I feel like I want to start over again. She's not somene I want to feel like I have to abandon because the story didn't work out. It's why I resist giving her her own series.

This is partly why I started World Class. I'm invested in those characters too, but they are inseperably tied to the story. If the story dies, they die with it. i have a different impression entirely with those.

An origin story might be an exception, though, because it's open ended, and even if it fails, ultimately it's still an "origin bible" I can use later.



    Quote:
    By the way, I'm assuming a Lara book, but the alternative would be to cover Lara, Liu Xi, Chiaki, and Anna together, charting their individual origins until it was time for them all to crash together. In that case, unify them with a single archvillain somehow behind all of their problems.


That might be an interesting one except for a few problems I'd have to solve, including:

1) Any archvillain capable of harming Lara would probably kill all of the others. Also, her origin is in another universe.

2) Chiaki never had an arch-villain. I've been toying with the concept that her pseudo-archvillain is balancing Akiko Masamune with thr rest of her life, and what happens if that friendship turns sour.

I always thought I might write something where Chiaki has to disappear because her criminal past came back to haunt her, and the others have to uncover what past exactly that is in order to rescue her. The trick is using that as a tool to dig up the others' pasts as well.







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