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Post By
Visionary

In Reply To
HH

Subj: Re: My own thoughts on these two having now seen it as well [spoilers in general, although I'll try not to give too much away.]
Posted: Fri May 08, 2015 at 11:24:28 am EDT
Reply Subj: Re: My own thoughts on these two having now seen it as well [spoilers in general, although I'll try not to give too much away.]
Posted: Thu May 07, 2015 at 03:41:11 am EDT



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    Whedon certainly seems "Avengered out" at the moment, but if any of the Marvel movies requires additional runtime to correct the bleeding cuts for timing purposes it is this one.


I agree. I remember an interview from Anthony Mackie where he said people called him after the Avengers 2 movie poster came out and that's how he learned he was in the film. A bunch of people online thought that story was bull, as how could he not know he was in it? Considering the amount cut (including Loki) I'd say he was telling the truth... nobody knew if their cameos would make it to the final film.

Apparently Marvel at one point suggested cutting all of the Scarlet Witch-induced dream sequences and the entire farm visit. That would have been a major change, and while I could see the dream sequences going (except maybe Stark's, as it displayed his motivations, and of course Thor's involvement would need to alter), losing the farm sequence would have been a huge mistake.


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    Marvel's releases have now reached the magnitude that makes spoiler control bery difficult.


I've seen that substantial spoilers for "Civil War" have been making the rounds based on the unverified word of someone who claims to be "in the know", but that a great number of people seem to believe are accurate.

Buy yes, with as much coordination between different parties as major releases need, it's inevitable that leaks are going to happen... intentionally or by complete accident.


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    Yes... Thor's little side quest seemed cut down to the bare minimum. I can understand, as it really is a bit too tangential to the story here.

    It still felt like we had missed an important development there. We didn't get a real sense of any danger that Thor mentioned to Selvig, or even proper context for why Thor was taking a bath. It was a strange unbalanced cutaway from Cap and Stark chopping logs and Widow and Banner discussing bathroom arrangements.


That's one of the bits where I have to wonder how well general audiences followed it all. Even I wasn't really clear on what Thor was supposed to be seeing... It seemed more like he walked in on a party where Heimdal was already drunk.


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    I really wanted an Ultron that could take the combined beating from the team and keep coming... That molten scene suggested such a thing, but never really happened. Ah well.

    I wanted Ultron Unlimited, but I was content with them borrowing Graviton's plot.


It really was a Graviton thing, wasn't it? Speaking of which, I wonder if he'll reappear on Agents of SHIELD sometime. On the subject of that show, I guess we now know why they introduced a different love interest for Mockingbird...


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    There's a conversation to be had at some point regarding the use of trailers as a way of preparing audiences for major movie releases. Rhiannon pointed out the setup of lifting Mjolnir via the main trailer release. The Red Room material was likewise flagged so that internet-gossip-savvy viewers would know what they were seeing in the film proper. Given the significance of those elements of trailers it's no surprise that people spent some time chasing down bits that were less significant.


On a tangent, I really like that they used "Agent Carter" to substantially set up the Red Room stuff prior to Age of Ultron. It put a lot more context into the rather disjointed scenes we had of the Black Widow's early training.

The Mjolnir scene is one of those things that Whedon does so well... not just in the the dialog and fun of the scene itself, but the way it's used in the call back for both a joke and to answer the question of trust in shorthand manner. What seems like filler, character-stuff serves an important purpose.


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    We also had an immediate movie answer to the knotty comics debate as to whether Vision has to be intangible to fly.


Yes, I noticed that right away. I don't much mind... I'm still more concerned about the fact that they didn't demonstrate that he could turn intangible at all. That just seems like a very simple thing to establish.

I note that an article came out a while back discussing a set visit where the reporters witnessed a fight scene between the Vision and Thor immediately following his birth. I wonder if there was more to the scene in the movie before the Vision calmed down, or if reporters just interpreted what they saw as a "fight". I would have enjoyed a scene reminiscent of the Vision's 2nd issue, where Cap goads the team into fighting Vizh to demonstrate his powers.


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    It's true, and they play off of each other surprisingly well. I think movie Thor was happy to have another non-human on the team.

    It's a fairlly logical friendship given the SF version of Asgardians from the movieverse, but it was nice to see it laid out like that.


I always felt like Thor would find any question of whether the Vision was alive or not to be rather foolish. He talks, he's reasonable, and he can fight... what other measure matters?

Certainly though, seeing as the Asgardians interacted with the Collector in the "Dark World" after-credits scene, they've seen and interacted with weirder things than the Vision.


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    I spotted the Jocasta program on my first viewing of the film. I took it as being a bit of fun rather than a major plot point since there's really no logical reason for such an AI being in STark's collection.


True, if they had any intention of following through on her classic origin. But if they're never going to get around to her (which would require bringing back Ultron anyway, which I don't see happening. I was kind of waiting for a child to find an Ultron head and kick it around though...) I'm kind of surprised they didn't just make her Stark's new A.I., considering that they went with a female one anyway.


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    I was pleased to see the cooky quartet getting some time together, though a group shot of the four would have made me even happier.


A missed opportunity for a simple reference, at least... Going in, I wondered if they were going to end with those 4 as the new line-up. I did like the new one introduced, although I feel like we won't really get to explore it because of that Civil War thing coming which will break up the team anyway. Interesting that everyone besides Vizh and Wanda are former military types.



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    I still can't get that excited about the Civil War idea. The whole concept is tainted for me by its comics execution.


I figure they have to deviate substantially from it, not just because of character rights but because the whole idea in the comic just doesn't make much logical sense.

In any event, I was quite pleased to hear Kevin Feige come out and say in a recent interview that fans should stop expecting a film where the Marvel Universe takes a turn for the dark or overly tragic... It's simply not coming.


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    I do wonder how much development time the Vision can get in "Infinity War" when it seems like Thanos will be ripping a chunk of his head out to assemble the gauntlet.

    That's development right there!


I've heard speculation that the Vision might head to space to investigate the mind gem, which of couse makes people question whether he might pop up in Guardians of the Galaxy 2. Oddly enough, it seems like he'd be a good fit with that weirdness. Especially if they introduce Mantis to that cast...


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    It's a bit weird because the Marvel stuff can mine things in both directions... past and future. Not only do they drop plenty of references to the past batch of films, but we get a really enjoyable set-up for the Black Panther film as well. I thought that Andy Serkis was great as Klaw, and I loved the little accident that befell him.

    Serkis did very well indeed. A very strong start for the Panther mythos.


I honestly feel like it's a shame that T'challa will be introduced in "Civil War", where he could be somewhat lost among the giant cast.

However, I can clearly see why Vibranium will now be a point of contention on the world stage. I could honestly see that being the central point of conflict instead... Not registration (which seems small and pointless in this version of the Marvel Universe), but whether the Avengers (or the US, or the World Security Council, or whatever) should take Wakanda's vibranium to ensure it doesn't ever again end up in the hands of a mad robot bent on extinction.

That's actually an issue where I could see different characters on different sides, since it wouldn't be "beat the other side into submission" so much as "seize the vibranium" vs. "stop them from seizing the vibranium".


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    I was disappointed that Thor didn't get to say, "Ultron, we would have words with thee!"

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    I was surprised they skipped it as well, but I suppose this Thor doesn't break out the "thee's" too often.

    If they can toss in Howard the Duck they can toss in that quote.



Indeed. In the future, I will be sorely put out if they don't have the Vision shed a tear, and of course I'm expecting an "Ant-man shrinks and voyages into the Vision" scene at some point as well.

And to have Cap someday actually say "Avengers Assemble!", of course.