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Visionary 
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Member Since: Sat Jan 03, 2004
Posts: 2,131
In Reply To
HH

Subj: Re: Okay, let's go there. [SPOILERS!!!!!!]
Posted: Mon May 07, 2012 at 02:18:43 pm EDT (Viewed 514 times)
Reply Subj: Re: Okay, let's go there. [SPOILERS!!!!!!]
Posted: Sun May 06, 2012 at 10:56:46 pm EDT (Viewed 2 times)



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    I do wish they had at least taken a page from Video Games, and thrown a few mid-level boss characters in there to add variety to the fight... Especially for Captain America, who was stuck on the ground. Even "Raiders of the Lost Arc" knew that after watching Indy punch out half of the Nazi army, you needed to put him up against a big, shirtless guy under a flying wing. Some visually larger alien monster officer or super-trooper for Cap to beat up in more of a struggle would have kept it from seeming like his part in the finale was lesser.



    Yes, that would have been a useful addition.

    The other big omission was not giving the Helicarrier anything to do other than be attacked. Cool as it is, throughout the movie it's nothing but a liability. A ground-based installation couldn't have been cripped with one blast arrow, couldn't have nearly killed Thor, and couldn't have its entire security force distracted by falling from the skies so that a class 1 prisoner could walk away. The only thing the carrier does is launch a missile at the city to kill the only people with a chance of stopping an alien invasion.

    What we needed was another scene where the carrier gets to take on one of those big flying alien troop carrier thingies. Let Fury unleash some wah-hoo whoop-ass on one of them using his expensive toy. Then let him ram another of those (non-existent) boss bas guys with his flying car.


A very good point. Even I was wondering what the use was in that thing taking off... Seeing it in battle would have been a great addition.



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    I'd enjoy Ms. Marvel, although if they were going to use her I would have put Carol Danvers in Maria Hill's role. I think, however, there might be deleted scenes with Maria Hill, as from actor's statements I expected there to be more about her in the film... Samuel Jackson said multiple times that they don't see eye-to-eye, and that she's much more in the pocket of that shadowy commission... Yet I never really saw evidence of this in the final film.

    I'd certainly buy an extended edition of this.


Apparently Whedon has said that he trimmed the film down from something that was over 3 hours, but that he doesn't believe in putting any of it back in. "Thor" apparently had a great deal trimmed from it as well and never got any kind of extended release. We'll have to see if the shift over to Disney changes the likelihood of Marvel releasing special editions, but for now I think we can only count on a lot of cut scenes included among the extras.



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    I think the Wasp would be a great addition, although apparently Whedon tried to work her in with earlier scripts and just couldn't get it to work, so she was cut. I'll be curious to see if they ever get Ant-man off the ground and introduce Pym and her.

    Hank and Jan would seem to be suitable cast to intriduce when Ultron's turn as villain comes round.


I know Whedon was quoted as saying, in answer to the question of how you follow up something this huge in a sequel, "By making the next one more intimate and personal." (paraphrasing)

Ultron is the most personal of adversaries for the Avengers, in my opinion... provided the right roster.



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    On the subject of future Avengers, I've heard the repeated, completely-baseless theory that Agent Coulson was going to end up being the Vision... and I actually wouldn't mind that having some truth to it now that they've apparently killed him (although I found the scene somewhat suspicious.) I've never felt you needed Simon Williams to make the Vision work, the interesting thing about him in that regards is just the question of whether he's his own man or just a copy of another. Basing his brain waves off of Coulson connects the audience and the Avengers to that question in an emotional way, without having to introduce and kill off Williams (a character that Whedon has said he'll never add to the team anyway.)

    Interesting theory, although it might put a dampner on a Vizion/Wanda relationship, given that Coulson was 'cellist'.


I assume you mean "dating a cellist", according to that little bit of dialog between Cap and Stark.

Actually, I think that helps. The Vision needs that test to affirm that he's his own man. Think of that Harras written issue where the Vision and Crystal go to help Alex Lipton's father and wife, and replace Crystal with the Scarlet Witch.

Honestly, that's the benefit of using Coulson (regardless of the Cellist) as the basis for the Vision instead of introducing Williams. Since SHIELD will likely be a constant in these films, it makes it very easy to explore the question of whether his actually is Coulson, or if people expect him to be Coulson. One assumes there would be plenty of people on the Hellicarrier (not to mention among the Avengers themselves) who would know and react to this new being walking around with Coulson's brain patterns.

Besides, the smart way to play the Vizh/Wanda relationship is to introduce the attraction in one film, and then build up the external resistance to them being together in the next, before you actually let them come together. Throwing them together in the span of one movie wastes the potential.

Of course, none of it matters a lick if they don't expand the cast to include either of them.


And in answer to Yo's concerns, my guess is that this whole Coulson/Vision rumor began (long before the Avengers came out and Coulson died, mind you) because his personality is actually a pretty good fit for the Vision, minus the fits of rage. He doesn't come across as emotionless or mechanical, but he does come across as unflappable, intelligent, and resourceful in a way that is almost, for lack of a better word, robotic. Just add some angst about who or what he is that can boil over into rage and I think you have a pretty good template for a take on the Vision that I'd enjoy.



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    I also was checking all of the names in the video reports at the end, but I didn't see any that I recognized. Unfortunately, Gyrich might not be available... Fox used him (and killed him) in the first X-men movie. If they actually have a role planned out for her, I'm guessing Hill was introduced so that she could supply that kind of antagonism.

    I tried and failed to glimpse the names of the Security Council when they appeared on the video monitors.


I looked at those too, but I don't believe that any names were displayed... just coded numbers. Is that shadowy "World Security Council" from the comics anywhere?

I will say that Powers Boothe would make a pretty damn good Cornelius Van Lunt.



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    Yo: Enjoying this thread. But what about other comics nods you and others mentioned earlier?. I don´t know that much of Marvel U. to catch them.

    A briefly-glimpsed sign identifies the research facility at the start as Project: Pegasus. There's a ROXXON oil ad in the NY background (a ROXXON gas station also featured in the Coulson short "A Funny Thing Happened on the Way To Thor's Hammer").


When Stark is trying to dodge Coulson's call, he answers the phone as "Tony Stark's Life Model Decoy", referencing SHIELD's robotic duplicates.

I do wonder what might be included on some of those computer screens within the SHIELD helicarrier.


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    By the way, I'd love to see Hawkeye guest star in the next Cap movie against Baron Zemo's Masters of Evil: Radioactive Man, the Fixer, the Crimson Dynamo, Moonstone, Quicksilver and the Scarlet Witch. Of course, two of the Masters might defect part way through, making a quartet of cooky heroes.


Now that is an excellent idea, and could work for the next Avengers as well.