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Reply Subj: Re: The Nine Worst Avengers Posted: Tue Jun 08, 2010 at 01:54:37 pm EDT (Viewed 404 times) | |||||||
Quote: Quote: Quote: 1. The SentryQuote: - The Sentry is supposed to be the most powerful being on the planet. He's also mentally unstable. That is a bad combination, in my mind. So rather than focusing on getting him help, he is added to the roster to keep an eye on him.Quote: The Avengers need to be able to trust each other. Captain America has stated before if personal business doesn't affect the Avengers, then it can stay private. But if it is a matter that affects the team, he needs to know about it, since the team is trusting each other with their lives (this was around the time Ms. Marvel lost her Binary powers and became Warbird in the Busiek era). How can you go into battle not knowing whether the atomic bomb strapped to your back (AKA The Sentry) is going to explode or not?Quote: He was a terrible teammate; if there was a big threat, you didn't know if he was going to come out and help you or stay at home and cry on his couch (World War Hulk).Quote: I can't believe that Captain America would allow an unstable person that powerful on the team without at LEAST having a powerhouse like Thor around who might be able to contain him if he goes nuts.Quote: I've read very few appearances by the Sentry, but for me the character just has "bad idea" stamped all over him. He's so far into "Mary Sue" territory (and honestly, that's a phrase I wasn't familiar with until prior discussions here, but it's unavoidable to see now) that he just grates on my nerves. He's supposed to be as powerful as a "billion exploding stars" or something? Could you set a more ridiculous standard? He may have actually eclipsed my scorn for "Xorn"'s "star for a brain" power explanation in that regard. But heap on the fact that all the major characters of the Marvel Universe know him and consider him their bestest friend and it's insanely groan-inducing.Originally he had "the power of a million exploding suns", then they adjusted it to "power of a thousand exploding suns"; either way it was stupid. The other problem the character suffered from what inconsistency; nobody can really say what his powers are, after all this time. Sometimes he seems to be just like Superman, in one appearance had had power over molecules (exactly like the Molecule Man), he supposedly has psionic powers (which is how everyone "forgot" about him)...it's impossible to get a bead on the guy. Quote: I wish comic writers would realize that shortcuts rarely work in comics. You can't just introduce a character at the head of the pack... You have to earn that place through stories.Exactly. Quote: Quote: 2. Dr. DruidQuote: Right from the first time I was introduced to Dr. Druid I didn't like him (during the class "Under Siege" storyline by Stern). He struck me as being really creepy, and his constant undermining of Captain Monica really drove me to dislike him. When he died I was a happy camper.Quote: Aside from "Under Siege", I don't know that I've read any of this character. Wait... there were a few more forgettable storylines from around the same time. Either way, I never remember his existence unless someone points him out to me.Until I got the 30 years of Avengers DVD (collecting the main title from the 60's to the first few issues of New Avengers) I hadn't read any other appearances from him other than Under Siege. I didn't like him in Under Siege, and I didn't like him after I read more of his stories on my computer. Quote: Quote: 3. WolverineQuote: I actually don't have a problem with the concept of Wolverine being on the Avengers, it's the reason why he's on the team and the logistics of it that bother me.Quote: Wolverine was brought onto the team by Iron Man to be the team's executioner. Iron Man felt that when a situation presented itself where killing was required, it would be easier with Wolverine around. Captain America argued a bit, but relented fairly easily in my mind. The same Captain America who was outraged that Iron Man led a faction of Avengers to kill the Supreme Intelligence during Operation: Galactic Storm, I might add.Quote: Killing isn't supposed to be an easy solution, it's supposed to be the last ditch option. If you compare it to his battle with alcohol, Tony is just bringing an enabler into the team.Quote: Then there is the fact that Wolverine is on the X-Men, leads X-Force, and conducts the Broxton Philharmonic on the side (okay, I made up that last part). In what is supposed to feel like a cohesive universe, how are we supposed to believe that Logan is able to participate on all of these different teams, especially when the X-people are now based on the opposite coast?Quote: Quote: That was the explanation for Wolverine? I shouldn't be surprised, what with Hawkeye wanting to murder Osborne recently, and Mockingbird arguing against it, and nobody *ever mentioning* this complete role reversal from the very fight that broke up their marriage.*Quote: *Admittedly, so I'm told. I still can't summon up enough interest to read Bendis Avengers, even when their free on my I-pad.You get free comics on you I-Pad? Nice. I read Bendis' Avengers for about 30 issues, then dropped it. I like him on books like Daredevil, but he can't handle large super-powered casts very well. I am admittedly getting Avengers Prime though, which is supposed to be the reconciliation of Cap, Iron Man, and Thor. The smaller group should work well for him I hope. Quote: I had thought at the time it was originally announced that there was the possibility for a good story to come out of Wolverine as an Avenger. But then it turned out that the team was being recreated in such a drastic way as to make the significance meaningless... When the team is random and disconnected from its history, what difference does it make who is on it?If you'd named the New Avengers the Marvel Knights I would have enjoyed the book more. The name was the only similarity. Quote: Quote: 4. NamorQuote: He's only had a couple of short stints on the team, but that's part of the problem. It never takes long for Namor to get caught up in Atlantis business, or decide that he no longer wants to work with the surface world, he wants to conquer it.Quote: The other problem with Namor as an Avenger is that if the battles don't all end up conveniently near a body of water (which they usually do, this being comics), he quickly becomes ineffective. Stingray suffers from the same problem; water-based characters rarely work on teams long-term because you can only have "trouble at the docks" so long before the reader tires of the effort to get the battle near the water. Aquaman might be the one exception to this, as he has served on the JLA for decent stretches of time, but it does mean the writer has to find a way to include a body of water in the stories.Quote: I agree. Honestly, the "once an Avenger..." thing never worked for me, as there are plenty of characters that really weren't fully integrated with the team. Now, as I mentioned with Wolverine, the significance of being an Avenger is pretty much shot. It's like being a Major League ball player... rare, but there have been so many that you'd need an atlas to remember all the guys who came and went.And now there are 3 Avengers teams running around (New, Secret, and adjectiveless), so it gets muddied even more. That being said, I picked up the first issue of Secret Avengrs and really enjoyed it (the line-up is really fun; Steve Rogers, War Machine, Black Widow, Valkyrie, Moon Knight, Ant-Man (the new one, Eric), Beast, and Nova). Quote: I personally feel that to really be a part of a team, a character has to have some kind of definable relationship with at least 2 other characters on that team, be it as a love interest, rival, buddy, mentor... whatever. If it's a general thing (most of the team dislikes the guy's attitude or something) then it doesn't count. There are probably some specific characters that have done enough in a title to be an exception, but not too many.Quote: Likewise, I tend to think the best writers of team books tend to forge those connections between their casts, while the forgettable runs throw characters into the mix who easily drop right out again as soon as they leave.Or a character is introduced to drive a single plot and then has no use afterwards. Quote: Quote: Quote: 5. MantisQuote: I've never liked Mantis. Because I don't like Mantis, I usually avoid re-reading stories centered around her. So her inclusion is basically because I really can't stand the character. Sue me, I never said things wouldn't get personal.Quote: I really like nasty characters on teams, and I enjoy hating them as much as I like them. I think they help to keep both the writer and the characters honest, as by including a sarcastic, antagonizing voice in the inner circle it keeps everyone aware when things begin to get too self-indulgent in the personal drama.Quote: That said, my affection for Mantis is mostly based on her being a catalyst to progress the Vizh/Wanda relationship. Remove that, and she's way too trippy of a concept to take seriously, and Englehart was much too fond of her. (See that comment about shortcuts above.) Quote: Quote: 6. Jack of HeartsQuote: After his first story arc, Jack just spent all of his time locked in the Zero Room because he was going to explode. Yet somehow the guy locked in a room took up a lot of page space in that time. His rivalry with Ant-Man (Scott) felt forced, like when the writers changed (I think it was Geoff Johns who used him first, then *ugh* Austen took over) a switch was flipped and Jack went from grateful to the Avengers for help to a big jerk.Quote: His death scene was also terrible. Yes, he saved Ant-Man's daughter (though really, Scott couldn't handle one guy with a gun? Approach him at ant size, then grow and take him from behind, shouldn't be too difficult), but then he flew the guy out to space to blow him up. And Ant-Man looks up in awe and remarks "He was an Avenger".Quote: Avengers don't blow up civilian threats in space!Quote: I think I read his entire run as an Avenger, and I barely remember the guy. Interesting look, but otherwise completely forgettable to me.The character was around well before his Avenger days, and I don't mind him on his own. But he just wasn't use well in the Avengers at all. Quote: Quote: Quote: 7. ThunderstrikeQuote: I'm actually a big Thunderstrike fan, I love his solo series (I just need to find #23!). But though his solo book told me he was an Avenger, we almost never saw him in the Avengers book. To me he was a lip-service Avenger only. He never really felt like a member of the team.Quote: For me, I think the big problem with Thunderstrike is that I'd rather just have Thor or Hercules on the team, depending on what role I needed filled.I think at the time Hercules was suffering from a severe lack of confidence (he was a supporting character in Thunderstrike's solo book), and I'm not sure if Thor was on the team at the time. I think it was just Defalco's attempt to get the character more exposure, but the writers on Avengers didn't really buy in. Quote: Quote: Quote: 8. MasqueQuote: Why was a clone of Madame Masque determined to be Avengers material? Seriously? Whether you rate her by moral fiber, combat skills...she doesn't make the cut. She has goons to do her heavy lifting for her.Quote: I don't really recall anything about her either, and didn't know the character from her villainous days. In her defense, I gather whatever plans there were for her to be added to the team were lost in the creative reshuffling the title underwent. I don't believe she was even supposed to be a clone at the time she joined, was she?She did turn out to be a clone, I believe. Quote: Quote: Quote: 9. StarfoxQuote: I never found Starfox to be that useful, especially considering he is an Eternal. He has the same abilities as Sersi, as I understand it (he was able to molecularly restore a team of Avengers rendered "inert" by Sersi to survive the Nega Bomb in Galactic Storm), but he always struck me as being fairly useless, not a potential powerhouse like Sersi.Quote: And yeah, his "love powers" are pretty creepy, though I admit, would that same standard be applied to him if he was a female character?Quote: I kind of enjoy the occasional character like Starfox, who doesn't take the job seriously. It can add some fun conflict and lead things off into different directions. They're not built for the long haul, but now and again they can be fun.I agree; D-Man is one of my favourite Avengers simply because of his concept. I haven't actually read the story when he gets inducted by Cap, but whenever I see him pop up (like in Avengers #1 by Busiek) it makes me smile. Quote: I kind of get annoyed at the need for modern writers to indulge themselves in pointing out certain creepy interpretations of characters. I can't really argue against them, but is it really necessary to rob them of the more innocent bend for some cheap self-aware writing?I agree, but even when I was more innocent of such things I still found Starfox kind of creepy. And useless. Quote: Fun list, and some fun comics discussion!The original had Wonder Man on it, which I'm guessing you would approve of.  ~Hat~ | |||||||
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