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HH
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Subject: Doctor Strange movie – no specific spoilers Posted Sun Oct 30, 2016 at 05:14:59 am EDT (Viewed 4 times) |
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Posted with Mozilla Firefox 48.0 on MacOS X
Doctor Strange movie – no specific spoilers but some general impressions that need to offer some reference to the elements of the film and comics:
Saw the movie yesterday afternoon in a huge cinema with 12 other people in it!
There’s a new Marvel identifier logo-thingie at the start of the movie, replacing the comic-book-flip-art sequence of earlier films with pictures of the movie versions of the superheroes. It distracted me more than it should have.
Visual effects were good and unusual, but could have used less landscape kaleidoscopes and more Ditko dimensions (they were there but not there enough)
Music was good but at the cinema I was at it was cranked just a notch too loud for comfort. My son had his fingers in his ears at one point. But still no Marvel movies music as memorable as, say the Star Wars stuff or Reeves Superman themes, or indeed anything I would go home whistling – or even recognise again.
Surprised that some bad-guy names appear attached instead to good guys.
Rachel McAdams’ doctor/romance interest had very little to do except sympathise or be freaked out. She is entirely there to facilitate the main (male) character.
Tilda Swanson turns out to actually have been the Ancient One all along and did not previously reveal it.
Benedict Cumberbach made me forget that he had played Sherlock and Khan. He turns in a very convincing and authentic Stephen Strange.
Movie-Wong is a fine character but has nothing to do with comics-Wong. Movie-Hamir appears to vanish without trace 2/3 of the way through the movie and get forgotten about.
Marvel has not yet broken its problem with unfleshed-out bad guys doing bad things because they are generically bad. That may possibly change with Strange 2 after the second post-credits sequence of Strange 1.
The Cloak of Levitation is the break-out character. It may be in continuity with Disney’s Aladdin’s magic carpet. Now I want to see it team up with Rocket and Groot. The Cloak acts better than virtually anyone in Superman v Batman: The Dawn of Justice.
The relatively small cast made for a tighter, more intimate movie and was stronger for it. All the script focus was still really on Cumberbach and Swanson anyhow. Other talented actors didn’t get too much material to work with. This isn’t really a criticism, though, as the movie placed attention where it needed to. Actor roles served the story, not the other way round. Good discipline. In fact I can’t think of a wasted scene or unrelated moment.
The Sanctum Sanctorum looks excellent. The whole movie is very nice to look at. The non-CGI cinematography was notable with great use of framing and colour.
There are a few visual Easter Eggs in the props lying around the Sanctum and Kamar-Taj.
I’m not sure about some of the revisions made to magic, how it works, and the backstory of Earth’s sorcerers. Two additions to comics-established lore seemed to ring false in what was otherwise a well-realised depiction of the comics series (I may comment on them later when I can include spoilers). A tweak about the purpose of the Sanctum Sanctorum didn’t really bother me. The Eye of Agamotto gets some backstory that necessarily distinguishes it and Agamotto from the comics versions in form and function.
I thought astral bodies were done well here. Astral combat in real-world locations was very much in the Ditko manner.
The first post-credits sequence had great smile-inducing dialogue. It served its purpose in hooking me on what might come next.
The end credits thank a bunch of comics creators. I couldn’t read all of them as they whizzed past but later I’ll be interested to go back and see who got thanked and who got missed off. I know Gene Colan and Roger Stern were in there. There’s also a warning about driving safely.
The movie’s finale worked for me because it shied away from the now de rigeur mass city destruction that looked like it might happen and went for something far more Dr Strange-r. This may be the first superhero movie where the hero wins by outsmarting the bad guy – and that’s right for a master of the mystic arts.
I enjoyed the movie and it will clearly reward repeat viewing. Recommended.
IW
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Manga Shoggoth
Member Since: Fri Jan 02, 2004 Posts: 391
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Subject: That's a relief. [Re: HH] Posted Sun Oct 30, 2016 at 02:36:12 pm EDT (Viewed 530 times) |
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Posted with Mozilla Firefox 49.0 on Windows 7
I used to enjoy the very old Dr Strange stories, and I'm pleased that the movie hasn't made a complete hash of things.
I probably won't hit the cinemas, but it sounds like one for the DVD queue.
As is always the case with my writing, please feel free to comment.
I welcome both positive and negative criticism of my work, although I cannot promise to enjoy the negative.
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Visionary
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Subject: I just saw the film today... some crazy fun to be had there! (No spoilers here either) [Re: HH] Posted Fri Nov 04, 2016 at 11:45:57 pm EDT (Viewed 1 times) |
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Posted with Apple iPad 602.1.50
It really did its job, priming me to want to see more of his adventures, which is always a plus for a character that hadn't before appealed to me all that much.
All of the cast was great, especially Swinton. I also quite liked Elijafor's Mordo... shades of his Operative character from Serenity in his delivery. Mikkleson's villain had good screen presence, and I thought an interestingly non-evil goal, I thought... all that I would have added to him was a scene establishing his motivation. And yeah, McAdams does seem to be there for marketing reasons mostly, to be able to put in the talk show appearances promoting the film. Even she does nicely with her limited time, but it's not that much of a character. Hopefully we'll get a certain more classic love interest in future films.
I lived the various little nods to the wider MCU, and all of the bits of world-building this one brings as well. Marvel is in very good shape moving forward from here.
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HH
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Subject: Speculation on the future making reference to the current film [Re: Visionary] Posted Sat Nov 05, 2016 at 06:30:53 am EDT (Viewed 1 times) |
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Posted with Mozilla Firefox 43.0 on FreeBSD
Quote: It really did its job, priming me to want to see more of his adventures, which is always a plus for a character that hadn't before appealed to me all that much.
I've always liked Dr Strange but there have only really been three runs that really appealed to me: the Ditko originals, the first Engelhart run (Caterpillars et al), and the Stern period with Tom Sutton and later Paul Smith on art. Everything since then has veered from quite good to not good. The current series is on the quite-good end of the spectrum.
The problem is that the comics medium has moved on since the days of Dr Strange's inception. He was rooted in pulp literature, of the line of occult detectives that extends back to Semi-Dual and Carnacki. Borrowed tropes include the sanctum sanctorum, the wise foreign mentor, the ethnic manservant, the rescued exotic princess, the menacing foreign counterpart enemy etc. These are all classics of their time but in days of more enlightened multiculturalism and sensitivity to appropriation they can be more difficult.
There has also been a lot of development in the fantasy genre since 1963. Leia Organa became the patron saint of rebel princesses from evil bloodlines. Generations of elitist gentlemen occultists were offended and outdated by John Constantine and his copycats. Magic was changed by Hogwarts and The Exorcist. It's no longer enough to wave one's arms around and shout the name of a made-up supernatural entity. In fact, Dr Strange has the same problems that the movie John Carter experienced: many of the innovations from the original have been borrowed and improved upon and run into the ground by later but better-known works.
Quote: All of the cast was great, especially Swinton. I also quite liked Elijafor's Mordo... shades of his Operative character from Serenity in his delivery.
A little more backstory would have been welcome, though. For example, comics' Baron Karl Amadeus Mordo came from a Transylvanian elitist lineage of sorcerers and once had a family. His study of the mystic arts was informed by a deep knowledge of magical tradition. His clash with Strange was really old-world European noble vs brash new world colonial upstart to shape the world's future; the American War of Independence in miniature.
I don't mind that they changed Mordo's ethnicity, but every change to some of those old Marvel stories weakens some period trope that they drew upon. A younger Aunt May? An AI Jarvis? A "dead" Jan van Dyne? You'd better plan to put something in that's just as good as what you cut out. So far to my view, they haven't.
Quote: Mikkleson's villain had good screen presence, and I thought an interestingly non-evil goal, I thought... all that I would have added to him was a scene establishing his motivation.
Agreed. Something that explained why his dialogueless minions were following him would have been nice.
Quote: And yeah, McAdams does seem to be there for marketing reasons mostly, to be able to put in the talk show appearances promoting the film. Even she does nicely with her limited time, but it's not that much of a character. Hopefully we'll get a certain more classic love interest in future films.
I'd be okay with Clea taking over McAdams' body or appearance. After all, when a half-Faltinean incarnates, why should she look at all human unless she chooses to?
Quote: I lived the various little nods to the wider MCU, and all of the bits of world-building this one brings as well. Marvel is in very good shape moving forward from here.
I liked them too, but I spotted one continuity error that bugs me. In a nice throwaway link in the scene leading to Strange's car crash, he turns down operating on "some pilot who crashed his flight suit", a clear nod to Rhodey in Civil War. So that establishes Strange's origin as being post-CW. But in Cap 2: Winter Soldier, Strange is already known and is on SHIELD's watchlist, one of three names reeled off by Sitwell as being on HYDRA's hit list: "Tony Stark, Stephen Strange, Bruce Banner..."
Anyway, a fun film with some remarkable visuals. I look forward to seeing it again on DVD.
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Visionary
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Subject: Re: Speculation on the future making reference to the current film [Re: HH] Posted Sat Nov 05, 2016 at 02:18:31 pm EDT (Viewed 1 times) |
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Posted with Apple iPad 602.1.50
Not being aware of them, the loss of some of those original tropes and themes (especially in regards to Mordo) obviously didn't bother me much, but I can see how they added to the concepts as a whole and I can agree that their removal should be offset.
The cultural sensitivity aspect on this film was always going to be a hot-button topic. Personally, I think they handled it decently, but then I was never part of the injured parties in those regards. Still, I like that they maintained the trope of traveling to the Far East for mystical enlightenment even as they made it a global practice (I felt like it was missing a comment about Strange traveling around the world when the same group had an office in Manhattan.). As such, I though making the ancient one a Celtic woman deftly avoided the whole "magical minority helps the white man become the true hero", but I see that many are still writing editorials about "whitewashing" anyway.
Quote: Mikkleson's villain had good screen presence, and I thought an interestingly non-evil goal, I thought... all that I would have added to him was a scene establishing his motivation.
Agreed. Something that explained why his dialogueless minions were following him would have been nice.
It's the one area where I thought that the sole focus on Strange hurt things... that rift between sorcerers who wanted to use magics to make all death needless and a thing of the past and those who had strong beliefs about not interfering with the natural order of things needed some more exploration, especially to really drive home Mordo's feeling of betrayal in regards to the Ancient One.
Hopefully, if a sequel does focus on Mordo, it'll get more showing there.
Quote: I'd be okay with Clea taking over McAdams' body or appearance. After all, when a half-Faltinean incarnates, why should she look at all human unless she chooses to?
I hadn't considered that possibility, but that would make for an interesting twist on things.
Quote: I liked them too, but I spotted one continuity error that bugs me. In a nice throwaway link in the scene leading to Strange's car crash, he turns down operating on "some pilot who crashed his flight suit", a clear nod to Rhodey in Civil War. So that establishes Strange's origin as being post-CW. But in Cap 2: Winter Soldier, Strange is already known and is on SHIELD's watchlist, one of three names reeled off by Sitwell as being on HYDRA's hit list: "Tony Stark, Stephen Strange, Bruce Banner..."
I had been thinking about that myself. I saw someone claim that the director denied that it was Rhodey they were referencing, which seems downright silly (people speculated it could have been one of Justin Hammer's test pilots), but maybe they did think it boxed them in too much? Either way, Avengers Tower is quite clearly part of the skyline early in the film, so it's not like they could go back much before Cap 2 anyway.
For me, the best solution to this is a bit of time manipulation... say Hydra has pictures of Doctor Strange showing up at some point in the past where Stephen Strange clearly couldn't have been if he was normal. Be it during the Infinity War or some other future adventure, drop Strange back to the past and they've got this covered... and luckily, a certain artifact makes this easily a possibility.
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HH
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Subject: Re: Speculation on the future making reference to the current film [Re: Visionary] Posted Sun Nov 06, 2016 at 07:23:32 am EST (Viewed 2 times) |
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Posted with Mozilla Firefox 43.0 on FreeBSD
Quote: Not being aware of them, the loss of some of those original tropes and themes (especially in regards to Mordo) obviously didn't bother me much, but I can see how they added to the concepts as a whole and I can agree that their removal should be offset.
To be fair, Mordo was pretty much a stereotypical heel-turn apostle evil opposite of Dr Strange for the first twenty-fiver years of his literary life. I think it was Roy Thomas in Dr Strange Sorcerer Supreme who filled in details and backstory about the lineage of mystical Mordos, supplying the abusive father that was de rigeur for all 80s and 90s comics characters, an arranged marriage, and a daughter who might later become Baroness Mordo and take on Strange after her father's supposedly-permanent demise.
I'd have to check when Clea morphed from hostage to be rescued (first appearances) through live-in disciple (some excellent Frank Brunner art, I recall) to kickass Dark Dimension rebellion leader (excellent Paul Smith art - Clea attracts some qualisty artists). She was revealed as a dimensional princess pretty early on, daughter of Orini who had ruled his plane before it was conquered by Dormammu and Umar and he was reduced to steward. Later Umar was revealed as her mother, putting her firmly into the "villain's beautiful only daughter and heiress" trope. I don't know whether she or Leia got to do the rebel thing first.
Unfortunately, once you go the rebel-leadership plot and you liberate your homeland and bercome its powerful queen, there are strictly limited number of feasible plots you can be part of. The long-distance relationship never really worked and Clea has not had an original or effective plotline since the late 80s.
Quote: The cultural sensitivity aspect on this film was always going to be a hot-button topic. Personally, I think they handled it decently, but then I was never part of the injured parties in those regards. Still, I like that they maintained the trope of traveling to the Far East for mystical enlightenment even as they made it a global practice (I felt like it was missing a comment about Strange traveling around the world when the same group had an office in Manhattan.). As such, I though making the ancient one a Celtic woman deftly avoided the whole "magical minority helps the white man become the true hero", but I see that many are still writing editorials about "whitewashing" anyway.
As a Briton with Celtic ancestry I am deeply offended at the cultural appropriation of Celtic themes and beliefs (such as baldness and being Tilda Swanson) perpetrated by this American imperialist movie!
Quote:
Quote: Mikkleson's villain had good screen presence, and I thought an interestingly non-evil goal, I thought... all that I would have added to him was a scene establishing his motivation.
Quote: Agreed. Something that explained why his dialogueless minions were following him would have been nice.
Quote: It's the one area where I thought that the sole focus on Strange hurt things... that rift between sorcerers who wanted to use magics to make all death needless and a thing of the past and those who had strong beliefs about not interfering with the natural order of things needed some more exploration, especially to really drive home Mordo's feeling of betrayal in regards to the Ancient One.
It would have been nice to see a more shaded argument before Kaecillius went horribly guylinered.
Quote:
Quote: I spotted one continuity error that bugs me. In a nice throwaway link in the scene leading to Strange's car crash, he turns down operating on "some pilot who crashed his flight suit", a clear nod to Rhodey in Civil War. So that establishes Strange's origin as being post-CW. But in Cap 2: Winter Soldier, Strange is already known and is on SHIELD's watchlist, one of three names reeled off by Sitwell as being on HYDRA's hit list: "Tony Stark, Stephen Strange, Bruce Banner..."
Quote: I had been thinking about that myself. I saw someone claim that the director denied that it was Rhodey they were referencing, which seems downright silly (people speculated it could have been one of Justin Hammer's test pilots), but maybe they did think it boxed them in too much? Either way, Avengers Tower is quite clearly part of the skyline early in the film, so it's not like they could go back much before Cap 2 anyway.
Quote: For me, the best solution to this is a bit of time manipulation... say Hydra has pictures of Doctor Strange showing up at some point in the past where Stephen Strange clearly couldn't have been if he was normal. Be it during the Infinity War or some other future adventure, drop Strange back to the past and they've got this covered... and luckily, a certain artifact makes this easily a possibility.
I like your explanation much better.
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Al B. Harper
Member Since: Mon Jan 04, 2016 Posts: 485
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Subject: I saw this movie and I liked it. I also read this review and I liked it! [Re: HH] Posted Sun Dec 04, 2016 at 12:28:13 am EST (Viewed 398 times) |
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Posted with Google Chrome 49.0.2623.112 on Windows Vista
nt
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