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HH



Posted with Mozilla Firefox 43.0 on Windows XP

Captain America: Civil War Review (no spoilers at the top, spoilers below the break)

Heroes meeting, fighting, and teaming up was a big part of the silver age Marvel formula. It was reinvented writ large for the comic Civil War crossover ‘event’ when the forces of good ripped themselves and each other apart, occasionally literally, while the bad guys stood aside pointing and laughing. It wasn’t Marvel’s finest hour because it mischaracterised many heroes and did lasting damage to them, especially Tony Stark.

I was less than enthused when Marvel Studios announced that the content of Captain America 3 would be Civil War. I’d genuinely have preferred the Serpent Society. It appears that the decision to go with heroes fighting was made in response to Warner Brothers announcing Batman v Superman: The Dawn of Justice and Kevin Feige’s opinion that Marvel therefore needed to “up our game”.

Fortunately, Civil War the movie takes relatively little from the comics that share its name. This time both sides of the conflict have valid viewpoints that each is able to express. Some characters develop and modify their opinions as the story progresses. Nobody ends up looking like an idiot or a fascist.

This is a confident movie. It’s not afraid to slow down, to allow long periods without action – but not without drama. It avoids frenetic cutting away as scenes are just getting interesting, so lots of bits are not just one-punches but one-two punches or more. It takes time to show consequences and to consider them.

Cap 3 has an insanely huge cast. It’s a tribute to the production team from writers to camera operators to the actors that each character has his or her own moment to shine and most have good two-hander scenes; and yet the focus remains on the guy whose name appears in the title.

The movie has themes of power and responsibility, so its good to have the poster-child for that introduced. Spider-Man brings a definite tone to the proceedings. Best of all, he feels like Spidey. The Black Panther is another significant addition, and of all the cast T’Challa gets to most set-up for movies yet to come. It is a mark of how deftly he is used that his story arc doesn’t feel like a trailer.

The film isn’t perfect. The main villain is a generic revenge-driven baddie with a famous name pasted over him. He might as well have been called Colonel Schemey McVengeful rather than waste a well-established and distinctive Avengers villain identity. The ending felt downbeat, with quite a lot still to resolve that won’t be addressed for several movie instalments to come. Still nobody has shouted “Avengers Assemble!”

But those flaws pale compared to the achievement of bringing so many characters together in so many potent ways, with proper emotions as well as great action scenes, with moments that provoke thought and moments that provoke affection for our heroes. If there must be Civil War then this is how it should be done.

This film is a milestone in superhero movies. It’s good entertainment. It will reward multiple viewings. It will stand the test of time. I recommend it.

Big spoilers below, so do not read ahead until you have seen the film…
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Really, I mean it. I recommend you resist the urge and watch the film first….
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Let’s get the problem bits out of the way first, because none of them are enough to sour what is a quite excellent film.

The villains were weak: Colonel Helmut Zemo of Sokovian Special Forces has none of the operatic charisma and vision of his comics namesake. Rumblow is more like Cap’s comics antagonist Crossbones and has a good if brief showing before he is wiped out as the disposable opening-act bad guy. And yes, Zemo wins; he destroys the Avengers. He’s still generic and forgettable.

The last act: Presumably someone decided the selling point of the movie was going to be a ‘who wins’ fight between Cap and Iron Man, because that’s what the big finale is about. There’s no heroes-fight-then-team-up-to-stop-the-baddie moment because the villain’s whole plot is to get the heroes to fight. Neither Winghead or Shellhead stop Zemo. The Panther does, eschewing the way of vengeance as the culmination of his story arc.

I’d really have preferred Rogers, Stark, and Barnes against the Masters of Evil at the end. Zemo actually got hold of five more Winter Soldiers then put bullets in their heads while they were sleeping. It was a narrative swerve justified in his exposition but it felt to me as a viewer as if I’d been robbed of a scene.

There were a couple of character arcs that seemed unfinished, although it might have been deliberate. The last we see of the Scarlet Witch is her again straight-jacketed and imprisoned in the Raft, back to the start of her nightmare. We know Cap releases her (presumably while the final credits are rolling before the first of two post-credit scenes) but her journey about controlling her powers and finding identity seemed truncated, as did her relationship with the Vision. Likewise the Vision was left with unresolved questions about himself, about Wanda, and about the Infinity Stone he bears. A closing moment to check in with him as we did with Rhodey would have been nice.

I question one casting choice. Did we really need a thirty-something Aunt May? Why eliminate one of the few strong roles for older women in the Marvel Universe? A younger May seriously changes the Peter-May dynamic and I doubt it will be for the better.

But after that’s said, all that’s left is praise. Praise for introducing a pitch-perfect T’Challa, with a revised origin that has less dated Colonialist overtones (Klaw was not involved in T’Chaka’s death, which instead happens onscreen in Cap 3). Praise for a quippy, bright, light-hearted, big-hearted Spider-Man who is fast and cocky and inexperienced and always fun to watch. Praise for using Peggy Carter’s passing as a trigger for Cap’s resolve to resist signing the superhero-controlling Sokovia Accords. Praise for Sharon Carter, who gets to quote Aunt Peggy’s “plant yourself like a tree” speech (a direct borrow from the best Cap scene in the comics’ Civil War), and her eventual inevitable lip-lock with Steve. Special mention to the comedy shot reaction of Bucky and Falcon to that.

Robert Downey Jr. really brings the goods to this film. His Stark runs the gamut of the character with practiced skill and pushes his limits further than before. This is a Stark who has taken a series of hammerings, from Ultron to Pepper leaving, from the Avengers split and Rhodey’s critical injury by friendly fire to the revelation that Bucky murdered Howard and Maria Stark. Downey manages to carry it all in his face and voice in his most mature and masterful performance.

Some of the relationship stuff was really fun. The nascent Vision/Wanda romance was well laid out. The Natasha/Cap and Natasha/Hawkeye friendships were given due acknowledgement. Ant-Man and Spider-Man’s newbie fannishness were used to great effect. The mid-credits accord between Rogers and T’Challa also tasted right.

For a movie about superhero clashes a lot of its quality did not depend on the action scenes, which is a compliment. But when the fights happened - and there were a whole lot of them in many combinations - they were done very well. They were all framed in different ways with different filming techniques with different props, settings, and lighting, so they never got same-y. A little shaky-cam aside they were always clear about cause and effect, storylined as intensively as the plot stuff.

As a fanboy I had my own long-held views about how various fights should go. What amazed me was how much the movie agreed with me. Spidey was remarkably hard to hit and impossibly dextrous. The Winter Soldier could probably best the Widow but not the Panther. Ant-Man would be fun inside Iron Man’s armour but shouldn’t underestimate Tony’s micro-defences. The Vision is an unstoppable heavy-hitter (and yay, a density-changing one!) until he crosses Wanda Maximoff.

What was I left with at the end? A movie about flawed heroes, one who cared too much about his friend and another who had been pounded by life once too often to be able to trust any more. A series of jaw-dropping battle scenes, too few of which were against the bad guys. A desire to see what happens next. A positive moviegoing experience that I’m eager to repeat (despite the seat-kicking child behind me). A Captain America who was again tested as a man as well as a hero and who came away beaten up but unbroken.

More please.

IW








Manga Shoggoth



Posted with Mozilla Firefox 46.0 on Windows 7


    Quote:
    I was less than enthused when Marvel Studios announced that the content of Captain America 3 would be Civil War. I’d genuinely have preferred the Serpent Society. It appears that the decision to go with heroes fighting was made in response to Warner Brothers announcing Batman v Superman: The Dawn of Justice and Kevin Feige’s opinion that Marvel therefore needed to “up our game”
    ...
    Cap 3 has an insanely huge cast. It’s a tribute to the production team from writers to camera operators to the actors that each character has his or her own moment to shine and most have good two-hander scenes; and yet the focus remains on the guy whose name appears in the title.


I find this interesting, because the major complaint I have heard with Batman vs Superman is that it tries to stuff too many storylines into one film.


    Quote:
    The film isn’t perfect. The main villain is a generic revenge-driven baddie with a famous name pasted over him. He might as well have been called Colonel Schemey McVengeful rather than waste a well-established and distinctive Avengers villain identity. The ending felt downbeat, with quite a lot still to resolve that won’t be addressed for several movie instalments to come. Still nobody has shouted “Avengers Assemble!”


The - admittedly little - I have seen of the MCU seems to have this as a common failing. The villains don't seem to be quite there (Loki in Avengers was an exception).

On the other hand, I have enjoyed the films I have seen.






HH



Posted with Mozilla Firefox 43.0 on Windows XP


    Quote:

      Quote:
      Cap 3 has an insanely huge cast. It’s a tribute to the production team from writers to camera operators to the actors that each character has his or her own moment to shine and most have good two-hander scenes; and yet the focus remains on the guy whose name appears in the title.



    Quote:
    I find this interesting, because the major complaint I have heard with Batman vs Superman is that it tries to stuff too many storylines into one film.


I've not seen BvS:TDOJ, having been put off by pre-publicity and some statements made by producer, director, and cast before it was ever released. What I've heard and read since hasn't encouraged me to revise my opinion.

One thing that contradicted my expectations of Civil War was how many slow, quiet scenes there were. In the first act especially, character moments are given time to breathe. There's a long sequence of them without any "action" at all, including a well-done funeral scene that still manages to pack a character backstory reveal and a major plot-changing decision into its four minutes.

If I was going to criticise this film, it is that the villain's plot is decidedly undercooked. It pretty much boils down to "Ha, ha! I'm going to make all you heroes hate each other and fight!" The major last-act final push reveal - that (Spoilers blacked out here, highlight to read) Winter Soldier/Bucky was the person who murdered Tony Stark's parents while under mind control was predictable right from the first scene of the film.

BvS seems to have tried to cherry pick aspects from a bunch of significant (but not all good) comics including The Dark Knight Returns and The Death of Superman, creating a Frankenstein's monster of shambling parts that are more than the whole. Civil War seems to have consciously avoided most comics plotlines and their sometimes-dodgy motivations, offering fan service by little moments (such as Ant-Man riding Hawkeye's arrow, as per a classic Avengers cover) rather than by butchering whole stories.

Another mild irritation for me is that the Marvel movies will not, or at least do not, acknowledge significant developments in their supposedly-same-universe TV series. In particular, Agents of SHIELD has established that many people with latent Inhuman DNA are breaking out with powers. That should have been a significant driver of the Sokovia Accords but is never mentioned except for a very obscure four word phrase about the "profusion of powered people" by Secretary of Defence "Thunderbolt" Ross.



    Quote:
    The - admittedly little - I have seen of the MCU seems to have this as a common failing. The villains don't seem to be quite there (Loki in Avengers was an exception).


This is commonly acknowledged as Marvel Studio's greatest weakness. Their most compelling villains have all been slowly developed over their TV series: the Kingpin, Killgrave, and Grant Ward/HIVE have all benefitted from much more screen time and show-not-tell development. I rate all three above anything the movies have offered, both as credible threats and as proper characters with motives and personalities.


    Quote:
    On the other hand, I have enjoyed the films I have seen.


Marvel seems to have hit on a winning blockbuster formula. I'm looking forward in particular to Doctor Strange.






Manga Shoggoth



Posted with Mozilla Firefox 46.0 on Windows 7


    Quote:
    Marvel seems to have hit on a winning blockbuster formula. I'm looking forward in particular to Doctor Strange.


I was rather taken by the trailer. Of course, I then also had the amusement of the fans complaining about the Ancient One being female.





Visionary



Posted with Apple iPad 601.1.46

It was definitely a very different feeling Marvel movie... They mixed up the story structure a good bit, and while there was a lot of action it felt like the true focus always remained on the conversations between such scenes. By nature of the story, it wasn't necessarily rousing, but I did find myself coming back to it long after I returned home. it was a very rich and filling story, despite how unresolved things may seem at the end of it.

Of course, I need to comment on the Vision. I still can't believe that Joss Whedon somehow failed to illustrate his main power set suitably in Age of Ultron... That's rectified here nicely as his first appearance in the film is walking through a wall, then awkwardly apologizing for the breach in etiquette (hey, the door *was* open...). He is definitely the powerhouse with Thor and Hulk absent, and despite seeming like the coolest head present, he also seems to cause the most damage (although Giant Man gives him a run for his money in that regard.) I will say that it's a bit of a problem in that it's harder to justify why he is not doing more to actually win the fight... Whenever he pops up in the brawl, he seems mostly unstoppable and does something major, then the camera cuts and he's out of the fight for a while again. I suppose we can assume that when he's not being shown that Wanda is kicking his ass. Regardless, I doubt it's much of a problem to people who weren't so focused on that specific character.

I liked the scenes between Wanda and Vizh quite a bit... Some excellent stuff there. If nothing else, the audience feels their friendship keenly. Their apology to each other was a nice moment as well, followed up by the tragic "friendly fire" incident. I'm hoping that this does get some follow-up in the next Avengers film, as it is too big to sum up with the Vision brooding alone over a chessboard in the end.

I'm not entirely sure why the Vision would stick to the registration side in the long run, mind you. In fact, I think that one of the weaknesses of the film is in leaving so few characters on the "official" team at the end. It's hard to see both sides as equal, as people selling the film tend to suggest, when Iron Man's side ends up being just Stark, Rhodey (who is likely to be recovering for a long time) and the Vision. Black Panther and the Widow changed positions, Spider-man went home. I'm curious as to how they're going to refill the ranks there, if they do at all.

I actually liked this version of Zemo myself, on the condition that this was just an introduction to the character. If indeed this was all they have planned for him, then it is indeed a waste. But I can't help but wonder if they might be looking to do a version of the Thunderbolts, perhaps following the Infinity Guantlet stuff... And bringing Zemo back as Citizen V could be pretty exciting, especially if they use that raft prison to keep alive more villains from future movies to fill out the ranks. I can't help but notice that Atlas uses Pym Particles, Sonbird uses Klaw's tech, MACH 5 is a Spider-man foe, and Moonstone has crossed paths with Ms. Marvel in the comics... That all aligns nicely with the upcoming slate of films between now and the next phase of the MCU. Sure, it's unlikely that they'd match the line-up so closely (they could certainly work the Fixer in near anywhere, although I might consider swapping him out for Sam Rockwell's Justin Hammer instead, and I personally think that they should bring back the Abomination eventually...) but it's interesting to see how easily the pieces for the original Thunderbolts could be set up from where the MCU stands now.

I could probably fill many rambling paragraphs about the film, but I'll save any more for another time. Suffice to say, I quite enjoyed it and recommend it!




HH



Posted with Mozilla Firefox 43.0 on Windows XP


    Quote:

      Quote:
      Marvel seems to have hit on a winning blockbuster formula. I'm looking forward in particular to Doctor Strange.



    Quote:
    I was rather taken by the trailer. Of course, I then also had the amusement of the fans complaining about the Ancient One being female.


That wasn't the bitter argument. The most rabid complaints were about the Ancient One being "whitewashed", with the role played by a Caucasian actor.

Others were angry because it was "appropriation", or the "mighty whitey" trope. Yet others didn't want another Asian character in a sterotypical "wise mystic" role and would have been offended by that choice. Others were annoyed because Dr Strange was White.

This got so bad that Marvel studios put out press explaining that the Ancient One was a role passed down from sorcerer to sorcerer, and the current one was of Celtic background.

The scriptwriter had a different, probably more honest response. He pointed out that:

1. About 20% of the movie's expected box office is likely to come from China. Only 20-30 Western movies are allowed to be show there a year, so the Chinese government has to approve of the content.

2. China invaded Tibet. Putting a prominent Tibetan character in there and having Strange go there would be controversial. In the movie, Strange travels to Burma.

3. Substituting a Chinese character, or casting a Chinese actor, would also be very insensitive, given, y'know, the invasion of Tibet thing and how it;s not really cool to endorse that. Not all Asians are alike and interchangable.

4. Whether there was an Asian Ancient One or a non-Asian Ancient One, some people were going to be pissed, so they went with a good actress.







HH



Posted with Mozilla Firefox 43.0 on Windows XP


    Quote:
    It was definitely a very different feeling Marvel movie... They mixed up the story structure a good bit, and while there was a lot of action it felt like the true focus always remained on the conversations between such scenes. By nature of the story, it wasn't necessarily rousing, but I did find myself coming back to it long after I returned home. it was a very rich and filling story, despite how unresolved things may seem at the end of it.


They are certainly trying to demonstrate that lots of different story moods and styles work within the wider context of a "superhero movie".


    Quote:
    Of course, I need to comment on the Vision. I still can't believe that Joss Whedon somehow failed to illustrate his main power set suitably in Age of Ultron... That's rectified here nicely as his first appearance in the film is walking through a wall, then awkwardly apologizing for the breach in etiquette (hey, the door *was* open...).


There could have been no better introduction to satisfy fans.


    Quote:
    He is definitely the powerhouse with Thor and Hulk absent, and despite seeming like the coolest head present, he also seems to cause the most damage (although Giant Man gives him a run for his money in that regard.) I will say that it's a bit of a problem in that it's harder to justify why he is not doing more to actually win the fight... Whenever he pops up in the brawl, he seems mostly unstoppable and does something major, then the camera cuts and he's out of the fight for a while again.

    When I saw this for the second time it seemed clear to me that in the airport scene he was held in reserve until Stark says something like "time to get serious". He doesn't really appear until then. Even after that he is very measured in his responses right up to when the fight turns with Giant-Man's debut. I can well believe that Vizh was carefully considering his actions, especially given Wanda was on the opposite team.

    I suppose we can assume that when he's not being shown that Wanda is kicking his ass. Regardless, I doubt it's much of a problem to people who weren't so focused on that specific character.


All the airport (and other) fight scenes felt reasonable in what they portrayed and how they turned out.


    Quote:
    I liked the scenes between Wanda and Vizh quite a bit... Some excellent stuff there. If nothing else, the audience feels their friendship keenly. Their apology to each other was a nice moment as well, followed up by the tragic "friendly fire" incident. I'm hoping that this does get some follow-up in the next Avengers film, as it is too big to sum up with the Vision brooding alone over a chessboard in the end.


The non-comics audience seem to have picked up on the Vizh-Wanda thing and taken to it. We've not really seen a Marvel superhero romance on screen before, so this one might prove both popular and prominent.


    Quote:
    I'm not entirely sure why the Vision would stick to the registration side in the long run, mind you.


I thought the "algorithm" argument was a good starting point. Vizh is on a journey between logic and humanity, and his initial argument was one of logic.

It would not surprise me in a future movie to learn he has been secretly seeing fugitive Wanda in the interim and not mentioning it to anyone.



    Quote:
    In fact, I think that one of the weaknesses of the film is in leaving so few characters on the "official" team at the end. It's hard to see both sides as equal, as people selling the film tend to suggest, when Iron Man's side ends up being just Stark, Rhodey (who is likely to be recovering for a long time) and the Vision. Black Panther and the Widow changed positions, Spider-man went home. I'm curious as to how they're going to refill the ranks there, if they do at all.


I think that was a deliberate move. And while I doubt the movie folks care at all, it nicely explains why a team of Avengers aren't there to stop Hive from taking over the world in the current Agents of SHIELD.


    Quote:
    I actually liked this version of Zemo myself, on the condition that this was just an introduction to the character. If indeed this was all they have planned for him, then it is indeed a waste. But I can't help but wonder if they might be looking to do a version of the Thunderbolts, perhaps following the Infinity Guantlet stuff... And bringing Zemo back as Citizen V could be pretty exciting, especially if they use that raft prison to keep alive more villains from future movies to fill out the ranks. I can't help but notice that Atlas uses Pym Particles, Sonbird uses Klaw's tech, MACH 5 is a Spider-man foe, and Moonstone has crossed paths with Ms. Marvel in the comics... That all aligns nicely with the upcoming slate of films between now and the next phase of the MCU. Sure, it's unlikely that they'd match the line-up so closely (they could certainly work the Fixer in near anywhere, although I might consider swapping him out for Sam Rockwell's Justin Hammer instead, and I personally think that they should bring back the Abomination eventually...) but it's interesting to see how easily the pieces for the original Thunderbolts could be set up from where the MCU stands now.


It would be nice, but I feel Zemo needs a lot of work.


    Quote:
    I could probably fill many rambling paragraphs about the film, but I'll save any more for another time. Suffice to say, I quite enjoyed it and recommend it!


More comment is good.






Visionary



Posted with Google Chrome 50.0.2661.102 on Windows 7


    Quote:
    They are certainly trying to demonstrate that lots of different story moods and styles work within the wider context of a "superhero movie".


I'm curious as to how they'll tackle the whole Infinity Gauntlet plotline now, as I think critics will not take kindly to a version that does not have a deeper point than "Stop the all-powerful purple guy". On the surface, it's the most "comic bookish" of the plotlines they will have dealt with.


    Quote:
    Quote:
    Of course, I need to comment on the Vision. I still can't believe that Joss Whedon somehow failed to illustrate his main power set suitably in Age of Ultron... That's rectified here nicely as his first appearance in the film is walking through a wall, then awkwardly apologizing for the breach in etiquette (hey, the door *was* open...).

    There could have been no better introduction to satisfy fans.


They do seem to know what is important for fans and what they can change with these major characters, for the most part. I quite liked how the film set Vision apart from his teammates. No one seemed quite comfortable with him, despite his attempts to fit in via attire, and that awkward first appearance through the wall sets it up. When he shows up at the airport he is practically otherworldly and brings everyone up short. Most tellingly to me, he pleads with the Scarlet Witch not to abandon her own chance to be seen as something other than a threat, never referring to himself mind you.... but taken all together, it's some wonderful, subtle character work.


    Quote:
    I thought the "algorithm" argument was a good starting point. Vizh is on a journey between logic and humanity, and his initial argument was one of logic.

    It would not surprise me in a future movie to learn he has been secretly seeing fugitive Wanda in the interim and not mentioning it to anyone.


I do hope we get to see him fully lose his composure before he is taken out of things to assemble the gauntlet. There was a clear bit of irritation in that fight with Hawkeye. I want to see him really get pissed off though.


    Quote:
    More comment is good.


I spent the last weekend visiting Lisa and Christopher and saw it a second time with them. Everyone enjoyed it, and Lisa commented that it was a much more mature film in story style than she expected.

I'm curious to see what they do with the understaffed official team. My brother attended a lecture from the Russos in Washington DC where he said that they accidentally confirmed Captain Marvel was going to be in both "Infinity War" films... not a huge surprise, but nice to hear regardless.

I also saw that James Gunn has cast Wonder Man for a background Easter Egg... and now I kind of want more done with Wonder Man. God help me.






CrazySugarFreakBoy!



Posted with Google Chrome 50.0.2661.102 on Windows NT 4.0





Hatman

Hey guys!

Member Since: Thu Jan 01, 1970
Posts: 618

Posted with Google Chrome 50.0.2661.102 on Windows 7

On the whole I enjoyed Civil War. It was a hell of a lot better than the awful Batman V Superman. I left the theatre thinking I needed to see it again as I think I may have missed some plot intricacies.

Rather than do the usual good stuff followed by bad stuff, I'm going to reverse that.

Bad Stuff
- I am one of the few people who would be totally fine if Spider-Man never existed in the MCU. I didn't think it made a lot of plot sense for Tony, who is arguing that the Avengers need to be more responsible, to draft a teenager without telling his legal guardian he was taking him across the globe to engage in a super-powered free for all with Captain America. To me it added to Tony's hypocrisy in supporting the Accord when his recklessness is probably the primary reason behind it being drafted.

- I also dislike the trend of continually de-aging Aunt May. Of course, it's pretty much impossible to do a better job than Rosemary Harris in the Raimi films.

- Unless I missed it, Tony never seems to really get called out for his role in the Accord needing to be drafted. He started the modern superhero era in the MCU and flat out told the US Government that he had successfully privatized World Peace. Throwing Ultron in his face would have been justified too. While the death of a single US citizen in Sokovia was used as the catalyst for Tony changing his tune, I don't think I ever heard him say "I" need to be held in check, always "We", still avoiding personal responsibility.

- I think Cap is putting a little too much Super into Super Soldier. Each movie he tends to take bigger hits and dish out bigger feats of strength. I always liked the classic "With no powers and just a shield" take on Cap.

- The kiss between Cap and Sharon felt really awkward, and I know it's comics cannon but it still feels skeevy that he's with Sharon but it feels skeevy that he's moving on from Peggy with her niece.

And that's about it for the bad, so really not that bad at all!

The Good
- The Avengers vs Avengers fight was done very well. As noted, every hero got a chance to shine. I recall thinking that Cap's team was pretty under-powered compared to Tony's going into the battle but they did a great job making it pretty even and convincing me Cap's team could hang with Tony's team. I think it important to note that unlike other films (*coughBatsVSupescough), great character work was delivered during combat.

- Vision's casual wear was fantastic. I could easily watch a character-focused Avengers film with no fighting because I love this kind of stuff. The beginnings of a potential Vision/Wanda relationship was great for me as I've always loved them together as a couple, current comics be damned.

- Removing Thor and Hulk was a smart move, as either could very much overshadow the rest of the characters due to their power levels and you could easily argue both would be on Cap's side, though I think you could sell Banner being on the Registration side, as the Sokovia Accord is a very different document than the Registration Act from the comics.

- While I didn't like the Sharon/Cap kiss the Falcon/Winter Soldier reaction was fantastic.

- While I have a hard time believing Cap could beat Iron Man one-on-one, the emotional pain Chris Evans and Robert Downey brought to that final battle was fantastic. When Cap and Bucky are tag-teaming Tony, tossing the shield back and forth, it's just brutal. And with Steve leaving his shield behind, I wonder if we're going to get to see him as Nomad?

My good might seem kind of short, but I could break down the entire Avengers vs Avengers battle into things that were fantastic, really all the action was great (though Bucky, Cap, and the Panther running faster than what looked to be pretty fast moving vehicles was a bit much I thought).

And I keep ragging on Batman V Superman in comparison, but here's the biggest reason why. Marvel has been building up to this for some time. Tony and Cap have never been the best of friends in the MCU, but they have an established history and can be seen to grow friendlier with each other through each film. That relationship, and that of all the Avengers on opposite sides (Clint and Natasha, Wanda and Vision, etc) adds so much more emotional weight to their conflict. Batman v Superman tried to take a shortcut and hoped that fans existing knowledge of Batman and Superman would deliver the same effect, and they were so wrong (and it still gets me that if Superman's mom's name was Donna the Earth would've been destroyed). DC is trying to play catch-up and take shortcuts and it's not working, Marvel is reaping the rewards of the slow burn they've been working on.

While I have long wanted to hear an Avengers Assemble, I think they are saving the line to unite the heroes again against Thanos and it's going to be a pretty spectacular moment. The general population may not get the significance but for us fanboys it's going to be a great moment. While I felt Age of Ultron almost felt like a placeholder movie just to advance the plot for the Infinity War films (or whatever the title is), Civil War I think was enhanced by knowing the team has to come back together to battle Thanos.

~Hat~




anonymous


Member Since: Thu Feb 05, 2004

Posted with Mozilla Firefox 47.0 on Windows 7


Won't lie, Vizh being in the last Avengers movie and this made me think of you, Fake Man.  Glad to see you're still around.






HH



Posted with Mozilla Firefox 46.0 on Windows XP


    Quote:
    On the whole I enjoyed Civil War. It was a hell of a lot better than the awful Batman V Superman. I left the theatre thinking I needed to see it again as I think I may have missed some plot intricacies.


I agree with all you said, except that I haven't seen BvS so I can't comment on that from experience. It sounds to have been a major misfire; what a wasted opportunity!


    Quote:
    - Unless I missed it, Tony never seems to really get called out for his role in the Accord needing to be drafted.


There's more about rhe Sokovia Accords in the Agents of SHIELD TV series that makes them sound more like the comic book Registration Act. All "enhanced" people are required to register, with their names, fingerprints, and DNA samples, and to be classified as to their risk level. That puts me more firmly on Cap's side of the argument, given the Marvel Universe's tendency to have their databases handed over to Hydra etc.


    Quote:
    - While I have a hard time believing Cap could beat Iron Man one-on-one, the emotional pain Chris Evans and Robert Downey brought to that final battle was fantastic.


There are some animated storyboards of other confrontations no included in the fional movie at http://io9.gizmodo.com/watch-black-widow-and-captain-america-brawl-in-a-battle-1781395763 As the title of the page suggests, the most significant is a Cap/Widow clash.








Hatman


Member Since: Thu Jan 01, 1970
Posts: 618

Posted with Google Chrome 51.0.2704.84 on Windows 7


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      On the whole I enjoyed Civil War. It was a hell of a lot better than the awful Batman V Superman. I left the theatre thinking I needed to see it again as I think I may have missed some plot intricacies.



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    I agree with all you said, except that I haven't seen BvS so I can't comment on that from experience. It sounds to have been a major misfire; what a wasted opportunity!


Honestly, I regret going to see it, the only highlight was Wonder Woman. Other than creepy evil ones from Lex Luthor I don't think there's a single smile in the whole film, it's downright depressing. I would have walked out of the theatre had I not been there with someone else.


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      - Unless I missed it, Tony never seems to really get called out for his role in the Accord needing to be drafted.



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    There's more about rhe Sokovia Accords in the Agents of SHIELD TV series that makes them sound more like the comic book Registration Act. All "enhanced" people are required to register, with their names, fingerprints, and DNA samples, and to be classified as to their risk level. That puts me more firmly on Cap's side of the argument, given the Marvel Universe's tendency to have their databases handed over to Hydra etc.


The trick with that is, the movies completely ignore Agents of SHIELD. While AoS plays by the rules of the Marvel Cinematic Universe, it's not truly a part of it. So when evaluating the films I ignore the developments on AoS, which have no weight at all in the movie division unfortunately. While I used to think Marvel had it right having the tv shows and films in the tv universe, I actually think DC may have the better approach as Supergirl, for example, obviously has nothing to do with Man of Steel.


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      - While I have a hard time believing Cap could beat Iron Man one-on-one, the emotional pain Chris Evans and Robert Downey brought to that final battle was fantastic.





Cool, I'll have to check it out!

~Hat~





visionary



Posted with Apple iPad 601.1.46





HH



Posted with Mozilla Firefox 46.0 on Windows 7


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      There's more about the Sokovia Accords in the Agents of SHIELD TV series that makes them sound more like the comic book Registration Act.



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    The trick with that is, the movies completely ignore Agents of SHIELD. While AoS plays by the rules of the Marvel Cinematic Universe, it's not truly a part of it. So when evaluating the films I ignore the developments on AoS, which have no weight at all in the movie division unfortunately. While I used to think Marvel had it right having the tv shows and films in the tv universe, I actually think DC may have the better approach as Supergirl, for example, obviously has nothing to do with Man of Steel.


That seems more pronounced now than before the Feige/Perlmutter seperation. It's annoying.






HH



Posted with Mozilla Firefox 46.0 on Windows 7


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    I'm curious as to how they'll tackle the whole Infinity Gauntlet plotline now, as I think critics will not take kindly to a version that does not have a deeper point than "Stop the all-powerful purple guy". On the surface, it's the most "comic bookish" of the plotlines they will have dealt with.


Plus there's two parts to it! That's going to require some serious added plot.


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    They do seem to know what is important for fans and what they can change with these major characters, for the most part. I quite liked how the film set Vision apart from his teammates. No one seemed quite comfortable with him, despite his attempts to fit in via attire, and that awkward first appearance through the wall sets it up. When he shows up at the airport he is practically otherworldly and brings everyone up short. Most tellingly to me, he pleads with the Scarlet Witch not to abandon her own chance to be seen as something other than a threat, never referring to himself mind you.... but taken all together, it's some wonderful, subtle character work.


I thought the Vision/Wanda stuff was very well played. The actors sold it even when they weren't the focus or given dialogue. Delightful that this is the first proper MCU superhero romance (since they sidelined Jan van Dyne and delayed any Lang/Hope stuff, de-powered Pepper and shuffled her out, and never went there with Thor/Sif).

I think they missed a trick in not mentioning Pietro. Not only would a reminder that the heroes took losses saving lives in Sokovia have been timely but it links in to reasons why Wanda might be open to Vizh being her friend and confidante.



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    I do hope we get to see him fully lose his composure before he is taken out of things to assemble the gauntlet. There was a clear bit of irritation in that fight with Hawkeye. I want to see him really get pissed off though.


"Another correction, Iron Man: My brain is a miniaturized, high-speed computer. I always know precisely what I am doing. I-- am-- killing-- him!"


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    I spent the last weekend visiting Lisa and Christopher and saw it a second time with them. Everyone enjoyed it, and Lisa commented that it was a much more mature film in story style than she expected.


It's interesting that many long-time Avengers fans are more engaged with the movies than the current comics.


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    I'm curious to see what they do with the understaffed official team. My brother attended a lecture from the Russos in Washington DC where he said that they accidentally confirmed Captain Marvel was going to be in both "Infinity War" films... not a huge surprise, but nice to hear regardless.


Carol is a natural for the official roster - assuming the is an official team now.


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    I also saw that James Gunn has cast Wonder Man for a background Easter Egg... and now I kind of want more done with Wonder Man. God help me.


Nathan Fillion as Simon Williams could be interesting, but I gather this was really just intended as an in-joke.

More, a Fillion-age Wonder Man's attraction to an early-20s Wanda would be somewhat tacky, so they might not go there.








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