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HH |
Subject: Avengers: Age of Ultron – the spoiler free initial review Posted Sun Apr 26, 2015 at 06:21:15 pm EDT (Viewed 2 times) | |
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Posted with Microsoft Internet Explorer 7 4.0; on Windows XP
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Visionary |
Subject: I honestly find it hard to believe... [Re: HH] Posted Tue Apr 28, 2015 at 02:10:08 pm EDT (Viewed 1 times) | |
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Posted with Mozilla Firefox 37.0 on Windows 7
...that I'll soon be living in a world where a significant number of the population will know who both The Vision and Rocket Raccoon are. I can honestly only recall once or twice in my lifetime running into someone outside of a comic book store or similar context who knew the Vision. I totally get to use the hipster "I was into him way before it went mainstream" line. I am, however, heartbroken that all of the various Vision things I collected over the years were lost in a move, and will likely be overly expensive to replace now. Ah well. Really looking forward to seeing this film... I expected that the critics would be harsher on it, and really I expect that to be a growing trend. Comic films will really have to offer something different or really surprise critics to get widespread, glowing praise going forward. You can feel the rebellion gaining traction as they contemplate the 20-30 announced Superhero films supposedly coming in the next 5-6 years. Anything middling will likely face tough criticism. If I were DC, I'd be worried... critics haven't been glowing to Zack Snyder up until now, and Batman v. Superman promises a whole other universe of interconnected superhero films. It's going to be tough to sell critics that they want that. | ||
HH |
Subject: Re: I honestly find it hard to believe... [Re: Visionary] Posted Tue Apr 28, 2015 at 06:37:30 pm EDT (Viewed 1 times) | |
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Posted with Microsoft Internet Explorer 7 4.0; on Windows XP
Quote: ...that I'll soon be living in a world where a significant number of the population will know who both The Vision and Rocket Raccoon are. I can honestly only recall once or twice in my lifetime running into someone outside of a comic book store or similar context who knew the Vision. I totally get to use the hipster "I was into him way before it went mainstream" line. It's not like you can't produce the artwork to prove it. Quote: I am, however, heartbroken that all of the various Vision things I collected over the years were lost in a move, and will likely be overly expensive to replace now. Ah well.That's very upsetting. I had my collection of Charlton comics stolen around 1981 and I still miss Wally Wood and Joe Staten. Quote: Really looking forward to seeing this film... I expected that the critics would be harsher on it, and really I expect that to be a growing trend. Comic films will really have to offer something different or really surprise critics to get widespread, glowing praise going forward. I see a number of critics have bashed it for being too long, cramming in too much. From my perspective, it was too short, skipping over some bits I felt needed to breathe more. I wasn't surprised to hear that an hour got cut from the running time. I have hopes that the "Director's Cut" on DVD will correct my very minor criticsm. Quote: You can feel the rebellion gaining traction as they contemplate the 20-30 announced Superhero films supposedly coming in the next 5-6 years. Anything middling will likely face tough criticism. If I were DC, I'd be worried... critics haven't been glowing to Zack Snyder up until now, and Batman v. Superman promises a whole other universe of interconnected superhero films. It's going to be tough to sell critics that they want that.I reckon the first sacrifical lamb will be Fantastic Four, or rather Fant4stic, but it my deserve it. Why can't movies get Doom right? I also note that poor old Sony, ever trend-chasing, has just licensed the Valiant heroes for their new massive interconnected superhero universe of movies to replace the crashed-and-burned Sinister Six spiderverse. As for Batman v. Superman, yeah, that's going to be amazing or a train wreck, nothing in-between. Right now the tea leaves suggest train wreck. One thing that amused me about the Avengers 2 movie was the repeated emphasis on rescuing civilians caught in the battle zones. It was as if someone had watched the Man of Steel movie and read the online reaction to the mass slaughter and Superman doing nothing. To be fair, though, any team led by a properly characterised Captain America isn't going to damn the casualties and take the expedient route of acceptable losses; in fact there's a very very cool Cap-speech on the topic at a key moment. | ||
Yob |
Subject: Re: Avengers: Age of Ultron – the spoiler free initial review [Re: HH] Posted Sun May 03, 2015 at 03:19:55 am EDT | |
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Posted with Mozilla 11.0 on Windows NT 4.0
Glad to hear you enjoyed it!!, I have read different opinions, and was a bit worried. I am mostly afraid for SW and Vision caraterization. Glad to know Vision did ok (for Visionary sake too ). But the actress playing Wanda dosen´t look convincing to me (I have not watched the movie yet), hope she grows on me...and that she ends with a better outfit ;( Thanks for the long review. I came hoping you would have posted one ) Love, Yo | ||
Yo b ;( |
Subject: Re: I honestly find it hard to believe... [Re: Visionary] Posted Sun May 03, 2015 at 03:32:02 am EDT | |
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Posted with Mozilla 11.0 on Windows NT 4.0
So Sorry for the lost...!!!! ;( I think I have lost several comics in moves too...but nothing I can´t get againg somehow Hope yu love the movie | ||
HH |
Subject: Vision and Scarlet Witch in The Age of Ultron [spoilers for that bit of the story] [Re: Yob] Posted Mon May 04, 2015 at 03:43:55 am EDT | |
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Posted with Microsoft Internet Explorer 7 4.0; on Windows XP
Quote: I am mostly afraid for SW and Vision caraterization. Glad to know Vision did ok (for Visionary sake too ). But the actress playing Wanda dosen´t look convincing to me (I have not watched the movie yet), hope she grows on me...and that she ends with a better outfit ;(I think you and Adam will be content with the way these two are characterised - and set up for a future relationship. First up, movie-Vision is created by an amalgam of circumstances and elements. There's even a red-hued hex in there (along with Ultron programming, Suzie Edo cybertech, Stark and Banner stuff, Jarvis - the computer program, still not confirmed to have been made from engrams of the butler - an infinity stone, and Asgardian lightning). The movie gives a little shot of Wanda's reaction as Vision first rises and speaks. She's definitely interested. It's not the only glance they exchange. And in the climax, as Wanda is about to be destroyed, it's the Vision who heads back into the maelstrom to grab her and fly her to safety. In terms of character, Vision is spot on. The only thing missing is yellow squared-off speech balloons. Wanda is a bit harder to read, but her key elements all seem there, including a closeness to her brother, an Eastern European cultural background, and a temper. She gets a nice character arc pushed forward by interactions with Cap and Hawkeye. Vision gets a couple of good conversations with Ultron, and a very dry sense of humour. When Ultron criticised Vision's naivete, Vision answers, "Well, I was born yesterday." I was slightly less convinced with the way Vision and Scarlet Witch's powers were portrayed. Vision doesn't do any density changing, except perhaps the hand-in-the-chest routine (but it's not quite clear if that's what he does a couple of times). His solar gem is actually the mind stone from Loki's sceptre, and he does project laser-like beams from it a couple of times. Wanda's hex power has grown even more nebulous now to a sort of general telekinesis, mind-reading, and the ability to waken people's deepest fears. I worry that it will give her even wider deus-et-machina powers than the comics version suffers from. She badly needs a tiara. However, its clear that in the movie universe the Vision-Witch game is ON! | ||
Visionary |
Subject: My own thoughts on these two having now seen it as well [spoilers in general, although I'll try not to give too much away.] [Re: HH] Posted Mon May 04, 2015 at 11:58:25 am EDT | |
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Posted with Mozilla Firefox 37.0 on Windows 7
I was honestly shocked that there wasn't a single shot of the Vision walking through a wall... I have to wonder if there was something like that left on the cutting room floor. It was surprising after reading various interviews about how bringing in the Vision offered them a different power set than the usual punching and such, and then he pretty much just seemed to punch and blast his way through things. I had to really look to see him do any "reach into an Ultron-bot" thing (seemed there was a green energy effect when he did so... not sure if that was a replacement for the old Kirby Dots or just something from inside the robots)... and as you say, it wasn't entirely clear he wasn't just strong enough to shove his hand into a bot and rip out it's heart. I did quite like how he was portrayed, even if his costume was a little needlessly busy (Not sure why he needed exposed bands of red on the back of his head, for instance.) But that's a very minor quibble. His creation surely was a kitchen-sink affair (which, honestly, is true enough about his comic counterpart's origins)... you even left out the whole "vibranium" element from your run-down, which I assumed was going to be used to explain how he could phase-shift his density but again... never really explored. His introduction could have used a bit more easing into and a little more clarity, but I did enjoy the quick way the film demonstrated his trustworthiness. Wanda was hard for me to really get a handle on... I think her next appearance will be very important in that regard. She is mostly in adversary mode here, after all. Her look doesn't really say "Scarlet Witch" to me, and her powers are a huge departure. I would have liked a better idea of whether she experiences the visions that she gives others, and if so, how that affects her own empathy for them. It seemed to hint at it, but wasn't really clear... and showing some growing remorse would have really sold it for me. There are indeed nods to the characters' comic relationship, although I'm not convinced they will pursue that at all in the films. However, seeing as these two are generally perceived to be among the more intriguing characters in Avengers 2, I would think at least somebody over in the Marvel offices would be mulling over the possibility of a "Vision and the Scarlet Witch" film to more fully flesh them out... with or without any actual romance. Not going to happen with the busy schedule they've already announced though. Overall, I though the movie was a lot of fun, and highly recommend it to anyone with interest. It seems very much an entry to people already invested in the Marvel Cinematic Universe to me, but I've heard a lot of anecdotes that it does play well to people who haven't seen many of the films before. One criticism that I've heard that I will agree with is that Ultron himself could (should) have been more intimidating. He's more another Loki in this film... a talker, who doesn't really seem very tough against the whole team. I think that the film probably used humor to defuse the tension in a few too many places where it would have been better to let the tension mount. The end result is a fun film, but not as gripping as it could have been. | ||
HH |
Subject: Re: My own thoughts on these two having now seen it as well [spoilers in general, although I'll try not to give too much away.] [Re: Visionary] Posted Mon May 04, 2015 at 05:06:16 pm EDT | |
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Posted with Microsoft Internet Explorer 7 4.0; on Windows XP
Quote: I was honestly shocked that there wasn't a single shot of the Vision walking through a wall... I have to wonder if there was something like that left on the cutting room floor. It was surprising after reading various interviews about how bringing in the Vision offered them a different power set than the usual punching and such, and then he pretty much just seemed to punch and blast his way through things. I had to really look to see him do any "reach into an Ultron-bot" thing (seemed there was a green energy effect when he did so... not sure if that was a replacement for the old Kirby Dots or just something from inside the robots)... and as you say, it wasn't entirely clear he wasn't just strong enough to shove his hand into a bot and rip out it's heart.Whedon has already mentioned that his original cut of the film was 3.30, and that 1.10 ended up excised for the cinema version. This one really will come out on DVD with an extended Director's Cut so maybe some of that material will slip back in. Other scenes we saw in the trailers have been removed from the cinema release too, notably one of a molten Ultron hand rising from a vat of metal and of Thor in that mystic pond with a young woman in the background. There was also a Loki scene removed. Quote: I did quite like how he was portrayed, even if his costume was a little needlessly busy (Not sure why he needed exposed bands of red on the back of his head, for instance.) But that's a very minor quibble. I enjoyed the introduction of Vision's cape. Quote: His creation surely was a kitchen-sink affair (which, honestly, is true enough about his comic counterpart's origins)... you even left out the whole "vibranium" element from your run-down, which I assumed was going to be used to explain how he could phase-shift his density but again... never really explored. His introduction could have used a bit more easing into and a little more clarity, but I did enjoy the quick way the film demonstrated his trustworthiness.Intriguingly, the Vision/Thor relationship was the most interesting on show here. There was more connection between these two characters in this movie than in nearly 50 years of comics. In fct I don't recall there everbeing a substantial scene between those two. Quote: Wanda was hard for me to really get a handle on... I think her next appearance will be very important in that regard. She is mostly in adversary mode here, after all. Her look doesn't really say "Scarlet Witch" to me, and her powers are a huge departure. I would have liked a better idea of whether she experiences the visions that she gives others, and if so, how that affects her own empathy for them. It seemed to hint at it, but wasn't really clear... and showing some growing remorse would have really sold it for me.I thought her best moment was her scared-and-hiding scene with Hawkeye. She certainly needs a lot more work to be properly defined. Quote: There are indeed nods to the characters' comic relationship, although I'm not convinced they will pursue that at all in the films. However, seeing as these two are generally perceived to be among the more intriguing characters in Avengers 2, I would think at least somebody over in the Marvel offices would be mulling over the possibility of a "Vision and the Scarlet Witch" film to more fully flesh them out... with or without any actual romance. Not going to happen with the busy schedule they've already announced though. If the rumours are true and Cap, Thor, and Iron Man are not in the next Avengers movie (Infinity War 1) then that opens the door for a whole lot more character work on the current B-listers. One reason in the comics that Vizh and Wanda got so much plot attention was that they weren't tied in to books of their own like the big three. That might work to their advantage here too, where neither blockbuster solo films nor prohibitive actor fees would restrain their use. Quote: Overall, I though the movie was a lot of fun, and highly recommend it to anyone with interest. It seems very much an entry to people already invested in the Marvel Cinematic Universe to me, but I've heard a lot of anecdotes that it does play well to people who haven't seen many of the films before. It assumed familiarity, but seemed confident in its assumption, requiring audiences to catch up fast. I'm reminded of current Doctor Who, which has stopped making any apologies for what it is and is unafraid to mine 52 years of continuity when it wants to. I'm actually pleased - and shocked - that the Avengers have reached that level of public awareness to be able to pull off the same. Quote: One criticism that I've heard that I will agree with is that Ultron himself could (should) have been more intimidating. He's more another Loki in this film... a talker, who doesn't really seem very tough against the whole team. I think that the film probably used humor to defuse the tension in a few too many places where it would have been better to let the tension mount. The end result is a fun film, but not as gripping as it could have been.I was disappointed that Thor didn't get to say, "Ultron, we would have words with thee!" | ||
Visionary |
Subject: Re: My own thoughts on these two having now seen it as well [spoilers in general, although I'll try not to give too much away.] [Re: HH] Posted Tue May 05, 2015 at 12:33:40 am EDT | |
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Posted with Mozilla Firefox 37.0 on Windows 7
Quote: Whedon has already mentioned that his original cut of the film was 3.30, and that 1.10 ended up excised for the cinema version. This one really will come out on DVD with an extended Director's Cut so maybe some of that material will slip back in.Well, I've seen at least one interview where Whedon stressed that there *won't* be a "Director's Cut", that the film is what was released, but that they'd be including a lot of extra scenes and people would see why they weren't used even though Whedon was proud of many of them. But then I also know that one of the overseas Amazon sites started listing an extended Age of Ultron to be released... and then had to retract it at Disney's insistence. Whether that was because they weren't really planning on releasing one, or whether that was because they thought that people might wait to see that on video instead of going to the theaters now, I'm not sure. Regardless of whether it's spliced into the film or just included in special features, that's a lot of extra material. Marvel has never done an alternate to the theatrical cuts of one of their films, have they? I know editing was the point of contention between Edward Norton and Marvel Studios... He wanted a longer, more character centered "Incredible Hulk" cut, and they wanted a faster-paced, action oriented Hulk film... and when he didn't get his way, he refused to do any promotion for the film beyond what he was absolutely contractually obligated to do. Quote: Other scenes we saw in the trailers have been removed from the cinema release too, notably one of a molten Ultron hand rising from a vat of metal and of Thor in that mystic pond with a young woman in the background. There was also a Loki scene removed.Yes... Thor's little side quest seemed cut down to the bare minimum. I can understand, as it really is a bit too tangential to the story here. I really wanted an Ultron that could take the combined beating from the team and keep coming... That molten scene suggested such a thing, but never really happened. Ah well. I did hear that the lady in the pool was part of Thor's vision, and wasn't anyone important (much like all of the random folks surrounding Heimdal). I find it amusing that so many people spent so much internet time theorizing who she was, when it was added to the trailer simply because the marketing team thought it was a cool shot. Quote: I enjoyed the introduction of Vision's cape.I loved that too. Lots of people online (likely influenced by "the Incredibles") argue that there's no reason for anyone to wear a cape. I keep pointing out that's not true for the Vision... his can be quite useful (assuming he can density shift, that is...) Besides, it's quite stylish! Who can blame him for taking one look at Thor's and accessorizing likewise? Quote: Intriguingly, the Vision/Thor relationship was the most interesting on show here. There was more connection between these two characters in this movie than in nearly 50 years of comics. In fct I don't recall there everbeing a substantial scene between those two.It's true, and they play off of each other surprisingly well. I think movie Thor was happy to have another non-human on the team. I was a bit surprised that, with the Jarvis origin, the Vision barely had any interaction with Stark following his 'birth'. I'm not even sure that they spoke to each other beyond the "It's true, he hates you most" line. I've heard that Vizh will be in Civil War, and an early rumor of the breakdown had him side with Stark (which seems odd considering his stance in this film.) If so, it'll be interesting to see their interaction. On a side note, Stark's new armor A.I. "Friday" was a bit out of nowhere... although apparently she was in some comics sometime. I saw in a video going through the Easter Eggs in the film that one of the A.I. options he considers loading was labeled "Jocasta". Quote: I thought her best moment was her scared-and-hiding scene with Hawkeye. She certainly needs a lot more work to be properly defined.That was indeed a great scene, and I really enjoyed Hawkeye's honest assessment of the situation. Quote: If the rumours are true and Cap, Thor, and Iron Man are not in the next Avengers movie (Infinity War 1) then that opens the door for a whole lot more character work on the current B-listers. One reason in the comics that Vizh and Wanda got so much plot attention was that they weren't tied in to books of their own like the big three. That might work to their advantage here too, where neither blockbuster solo films nor prohibitive actor fees would restrain their use.I know that there was the argument against a Hulk solo film based on keeping the chance to see him special to "Avengers" films. (Of course, apparently Universal would still hold the distribution rights to any solo Hulk movie as well, so that puts a damper on the idea too.) I though that maybe Vizh and the twins would add to that "only in the Avengers" list, but then they decided to throw everyone into next year's "Civil War" anyway. I do wonder how much development time the Vision can get in "Infinity War" when it seems like Thanos will be ripping a chunk of his head out to assemble the gauntlet. Quote: It assumed familiarity, but seemed confident in its assumption, requiring audiences to catch up fast. I'm reminded of current Doctor Who, which has stopped making any apologies for what it is and is unafraid to mine 52 years of continuity when it wants to. I'm actually pleased - and shocked - that the Avengers have reached that level of public awareness to be able to pull off the same.It's a bit weird because the Marvel stuff can mine things in both directions... past and future. Not only do they drop plenty of references to the past batch of films, but we get a really enjoyable set-up for the Black Panther film as well. I thought that Andy Serkis was great as Klaw, and I loved the little accident that befell him. I had it pointed out to me that Marvel intentionally had someone lose an arm in every "Phase 2" film as a nod to Luke getting his hand chopped off in "The Empire Strikes Back". (The villian in "Iron Man 3", Thor (via Loki's illusions) in "The Dark World", The Winter Soldier, and Groot, respectively.) Quote: I was disappointed that Thor didn't get to say, "Ultron, we would have words with thee!"I was surprised they skipped it as well, but I suppose this Thor doesn't break out the "thee's" too often. | ||
Yo, really curious now |
Subject: That was a lot of fun [Re: Visionary] Posted Tue May 05, 2015 at 04:13:25 pm EDT | |
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Posted with Mozilla 11.0 on Windows 7
I miss comics discussions, avengers ones specially, and if are centered about ¨fave of mines, that is wonderful... HH: Glad about the subtle romance, mostly as a nod to their history Don´t mind me, keep at it | ||
Visionary |
Subject: Re: That was a lot of fun [Re: Yo, really curious now] Posted Wed May 06, 2015 at 11:16:00 pm EDT | |
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Posted with Mozilla Firefox 37.0 on Windows 7
I miss those discussions too... but then, I haven't followed the Avengers comics themselves since "Avengers Disassembled" killed off Vizh more than a decade ago now. But the movies are still fun! Always a pleasure to see you online, by the way... and Ian too! | ||
HH |
Subject: Re: My own thoughts on these two having now seen it as well [spoilers in general, although I'll try not to give too much away.] [Re: Visionary] Posted Thu May 07, 2015 at 03:41:11 am EDT | |
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Posted with Microsoft Internet Explorer 7 4.0; on Windows XP
Quote: Quote: Whedon has already mentioned that his original cut of the film was 3.30, and that 1.10 ended up excised for the cinema version. This one really will come out on DVD with an extended Director's Cut so maybe some of that material will slip back in.Quote: Well, I've seen at least one interview where Whedon stressed that there *won't* be a "Director's Cut", that the film is what was released, but that they'd be including a lot of extra scenes and people would see why they weren't used even though Whedon was proud of many of them.Whedon certainly seems "Avengered out" at the moment, but if any of the Marvel movies requires additional runtime to correct the bleeding cuts for timing purposes it is this one. Quote: But then I also know that one of the overseas Amazon sites started listing an extended Age of Ultron to be released... and then had to retract it at Disney's insistence. Whether that was because they weren't really planning on releasing one, or whether that was because they thought that people might wait to see that on video instead of going to the theaters now, I'm not sure.Marvel's releases have now reached the magnitude that makes spoiler control bery difficult. Quote: Regardless of whether it's spliced into the film or just included in special features, that's a lot of extra material. Marvel has never done an alternate to the theatrical cuts of one of their films, have they? I know editing was the point of contention between Edward Norton and Marvel Studios... He wanted a longer, more character centered "Incredible Hulk" cut, and they wanted a faster-paced, action oriented Hulk film... and when he didn't get his way, he refused to do any promotion for the film beyond what he was absolutely contractually obligated to do.Sorry to hear that, since Norton brings a lot to the mix. Hopefully addressing his chagrin about being cut (of a similar nature to Saruman/Lee's in LOTR 3) will be an additional incentive for the studio to consider an extended version. It is also more likely to get me to part with my money than a "vanilla" release. Rhiannnon expecially is a massive extra ferature junkie, and since she tends to watch them while ironing my laundry I see it as win-win. Quote: Quote: Other scenes we saw in the trailers have been removed from the cinema release too, notably one of a molten Ultron hand rising from a vat of metal and of Thor in that mystic pond with a young woman in the background. There was also a Loki scene removed.Quote: Yes... Thor's little side quest seemed cut down to the bare minimum. I can understand, as it really is a bit too tangential to the story here.It still felt like we had missed an important development there. We didn't get a real sense of any danger that Thor mentioned to Selvig, or even proper context for why Thor was taking a bath. It was a strange unbalanced cutaway from Cap and Stark chopping logs and Widow and Banner discussing bathroom arrangements. Quote: I really wanted an Ultron that could take the combined beating from the team and keep coming... That molten scene suggested such a thing, but never really happened. Ah well.I wanted Ultron Unlimited, but I was content with them borrowing Graviton's plot. Quote: I did hear that the lady in the pool was part of Thor's vision, and wasn't anyone important (much like all of the random folks surrounding Heimdal). I find it amusing that so many people spent so much internet time theorizing who she was, when it was added to the trailer simply because the marketing team thought it was a cool shot.There's a conversation to be had at some point regarding the use of trailers as a way of preparing audiences for major movie releases. Rhiannon pointed out the setup of lifting Mjolnir via the main trailer release. The Red Room material was likewise flagged so that internet-gossip-savvy viewers would know what they were seeing in the film proper. Given the significance of those elements of trailers it's no surprise that people spent some time chasing down bits that were less significant. Quote: Quote: I enjoyed the introduction of Vision's cape.Quote: I loved that too. Lots of people online (likely influenced by "the Incredibles") argue that there's no reason for anyone to wear a cape. I keep pointing out that's not true for the Vision... his can be quite useful (assuming he can density shift, that is...) Besides, it's quite stylish! Who can blame him for taking one look at Thor's and accessorizing likewise?I was intrested by how "Superman" they shot him. We also had an immediate movie answer to the knotty comics debate as to whether Vision has to be intangible to fly. Quote: Quote: Intriguingly, the Vision/Thor relationship was the most interesting on show here. There was more connection between these two characters in this movie than in nearly 50 years of comics. In fct I don't recall there everbeing a substantial scene between those two.Quote: It's true, and they play off of each other surprisingly well. I think movie Thor was happy to have another non-human on the team.It's a fairlly logical friendship given the SF version of Asgardians from the movieverse, but it was nice to see it laid out like that. Quote: I was a bit surprised that, with the Jarvis origin, the Vision barely had any interaction with Stark following his 'birth'. I'm not even sure that they spoke to each other beyond the "It's true, he hates you most" line. I've heard that Vizh will be in Civil War, and an early rumor of the breakdown had him side with Stark (which seems odd considering his stance in this film.) If so, it'll be interesting to see their interaction. Those same rumours place Wanda on Cap's side, with the potential for some clash between the Scarlet Witch and Vision. Quote: On a side note, Stark's new armor A.I. "Friday" was a bit out of nowhere... although apparently she was in some comics sometime. I saw in a video going through the Easter Eggs in the film that one of the A.I. options he considers loading was labeled "Jocasta".I spotted the Jocasta program on my first viewing of the film. I took it as being a bit of fun rather than a major plot point since there's really no logical reason for such an AI being in STark's collection. Quote: Quote: I thought her best moment was her scared-and-hiding scene with Hawkeye. She certainly needs a lot more work to be properly defined.Quote: That was indeed a great scene, and I really enjoyed Hawkeye's honest assessment of the situation. I was pleased to see the cooky quartet getting some time together, though a group shot of the four would have made me even happier. Quote: Quote: If the rumours are true and Cap, Thor, and Iron Man are not in the next Avengers movie (Infinity War 1) then that opens the door for a whole lot more character work on the current B-listers. One reason in the comics that Vizh and Wanda got so much plot attention was that they weren't tied in to books of their own like the big three. That might work to their advantage here too, where neither blockbuster solo films nor prohibitive actor fees would restrain their use.Quote: I know that there was the argument against a Hulk solo film based on keeping the chance to see him special to "Avengers" films. (Of course, apparently Universal would still hold the distribution rights to any solo Hulk movie as well, so that puts a damper on the idea too.) I though that maybe Vizh and the twins would add to that "only in the Avengers" list, but then they decided to throw everyone into next year's "Civil War" anyway.I still can't get that excited about the Civil War idea. The whole concept is tainted for me by its comics execution. Quote: I do wonder how much development time the Vision can get in "Infinity War" when it seems like Thanos will be ripping a chunk of his head out to assemble the gauntlet.That's development right there! Quote: Quote: It assumed familiarity, but seemed confident in its assumption, requiring audiences to catch up fast. I'm reminded of current Doctor Who, which has stopped making any apologies for what it is and is unafraid to mine 52 years of continuity when it wants to. I'm actually pleased - and shocked - that the Avengers have reached that level of public awareness to be able to pull off the same.Quote: It's a bit weird because the Marvel stuff can mine things in both directions... past and future. Not only do they drop plenty of references to the past batch of films, but we get a really enjoyable set-up for the Black Panther film as well. I thought that Andy Serkis was great as Klaw, and I loved the little accident that befell him.Serkis did very well indeed. A very strong start for the Panther mythos. Quote: I had it pointed out to me that Marvel intentionally had someone lose an arm in every "Phase 2" film as a nod to Luke getting his hand chopped off in "The Empire Strikes Back". (The villian in "Iron Man 3", Thor (via Loki's illusions) in "The Dark World", The Winter Soldier, and Groot, respectively.)What a strange thing to tribute. Quote: Quote: I was disappointed that Thor didn't get to say, "Ultron, we would have words with thee!"Quote: I was surprised they skipped it as well, but I suppose this Thor doesn't break out the "thee's" too often.If they can toss in Howard the Duck they can toss in that quote. | ||
HH |
Subject: Well, a middling amount of fun, maybe. Leave room on the scale for more. [Re: Yo, really curious now] Posted Thu May 07, 2015 at 03:48:02 am EDT | |
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Posted with Microsoft Internet Explorer 7 4.0; on Windows XP
Quote: I miss comics discussions, avengers ones specially, and if are centered about ¨fave of mines, that is wonderful...I don't really keep up with the Avengers comic book these days but I did binge-read most of the Hickman run recently. I thought it was okay with some very good set pieces, but with a massive and underdeveloped cast, slow paciong, too many multi-page undistinguished battle sequences, and too much reliance on crossovers. Thor hurling his hammer away into space, and then it orbiting the Kree sun and returning most of an issue later to smash through the supposedly-indestructible gloating enemy was pretty cool though. Quote: HH: Glad about the subtle romance, mostly as a nod to their historyDon´t mind me, keep at it Happy to discuss this, but I'm going out to vote now (election day here) and then I need to get back to proofreading Vinnie De Soth, Jobbing Occultist so it can hit its mid-June release date. | ||
Visionary |
Subject: Re: My own thoughts on these two having now seen it as well [spoilers in general, although I'll try not to give too much away.] [Re: HH] Posted Fri May 08, 2015 at 11:24:28 am EDT | |
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Posted with Mozilla Firefox 37.0 on Windows 7
Quote: Whedon certainly seems "Avengered out" at the moment, but if any of the Marvel movies requires additional runtime to correct the bleeding cuts for timing purposes it is this one. I agree. I remember an interview from Anthony Mackie where he said people called him after the Avengers 2 movie poster came out and that's how he learned he was in the film. A bunch of people online thought that story was bull, as how could he not know he was in it? Considering the amount cut (including Loki) I'd say he was telling the truth... nobody knew if their cameos would make it to the final film. Apparently Marvel at one point suggested cutting all of the Scarlet Witch-induced dream sequences and the entire farm visit. That would have been a major change, and while I could see the dream sequences going (except maybe Stark's, as it displayed his motivations, and of course Thor's involvement would need to alter), losing the farm sequence would have been a huge mistake. Quote: Marvel's releases have now reached the magnitude that makes spoiler control bery difficult.I've seen that substantial spoilers for "Civil War" have been making the rounds based on the unverified word of someone who claims to be "in the know", but that a great number of people seem to believe are accurate. Buy yes, with as much coordination between different parties as major releases need, it's inevitable that leaks are going to happen... intentionally or by complete accident. Quote: Quote: Yes... Thor's little side quest seemed cut down to the bare minimum. I can understand, as it really is a bit too tangential to the story here. It still felt like we had missed an important development there. We didn't get a real sense of any danger that Thor mentioned to Selvig, or even proper context for why Thor was taking a bath. It was a strange unbalanced cutaway from Cap and Stark chopping logs and Widow and Banner discussing bathroom arrangements. That's one of the bits where I have to wonder how well general audiences followed it all. Even I wasn't really clear on what Thor was supposed to be seeing... It seemed more like he walked in on a party where Heimdal was already drunk. Quote: Quote:I really wanted an Ultron that could take the combined beating from the team and keep coming... That molten scene suggested such a thing, but never really happened. Ah well. I wanted Ultron Unlimited, but I was content with them borrowing Graviton's plot. It really was a Graviton thing, wasn't it? Speaking of which, I wonder if he'll reappear on Agents of SHIELD sometime. On the subject of that show, I guess we now know why they introduced a different love interest for Mockingbird... Quote: There's a conversation to be had at some point regarding the use of trailers as a way of preparing audiences for major movie releases. Rhiannon pointed out the setup of lifting Mjolnir via the main trailer release. The Red Room material was likewise flagged so that internet-gossip-savvy viewers would know what they were seeing in the film proper. Given the significance of those elements of trailers it's no surprise that people spent some time chasing down bits that were less significant. On a tangent, I really like that they used "Agent Carter" to substantially set up the Red Room stuff prior to Age of Ultron. It put a lot more context into the rather disjointed scenes we had of the Black Widow's early training. The Mjolnir scene is one of those things that Whedon does so well... not just in the the dialog and fun of the scene itself, but the way it's used in the call back for both a joke and to answer the question of trust in shorthand manner. What seems like filler, character-stuff serves an important purpose. Quote: We also had an immediate movie answer to the knotty comics debate as to whether Vision has to be intangible to fly.Yes, I noticed that right away. I don't much mind... I'm still more concerned about the fact that they didn't demonstrate that he could turn intangible at all. That just seems like a very simple thing to establish. I note that an article came out a while back discussing a set visit where the reporters witnessed a fight scene between the Vision and Thor immediately following his birth. I wonder if there was more to the scene in the movie before the Vision calmed down, or if reporters just interpreted what they saw as a "fight". I would have enjoyed a scene reminiscent of the Vision's 2nd issue, where Cap goads the team into fighting Vizh to demonstrate his powers. Quote: Quote: It's true, and they play off of each other surprisingly well. I think movie Thor was happy to have another non-human on the team. It's a fairlly logical friendship given the SF version of Asgardians from the movieverse, but it was nice to see it laid out like that. I always felt like Thor would find any question of whether the Vision was alive or not to be rather foolish. He talks, he's reasonable, and he can fight... what other measure matters? Certainly though, seeing as the Asgardians interacted with the Collector in the "Dark World" after-credits scene, they've seen and interacted with weirder things than the Vision. Quote: I spotted the Jocasta program on my first viewing of the film. I took it as being a bit of fun rather than a major plot point since there's really no logical reason for such an AI being in STark's collection. True, if they had any intention of following through on her classic origin. But if they're never going to get around to her (which would require bringing back Ultron anyway, which I don't see happening. I was kind of waiting for a child to find an Ultron head and kick it around though...) I'm kind of surprised they didn't just make her Stark's new A.I., considering that they went with a female one anyway. Quote: I was pleased to see the cooky quartet getting some time together, though a group shot of the four would have made me even happier. A missed opportunity for a simple reference, at least... Going in, I wondered if they were going to end with those 4 as the new line-up. I did like the new one introduced, although I feel like we won't really get to explore it because of that Civil War thing coming which will break up the team anyway. Interesting that everyone besides Vizh and Wanda are former military types. Quote: I still can't get that excited about the Civil War idea. The whole concept is tainted for me by its comics execution.I figure they have to deviate substantially from it, not just because of character rights but because the whole idea in the comic just doesn't make much logical sense. In any event, I was quite pleased to hear Kevin Feige come out and say in a recent interview that fans should stop expecting a film where the Marvel Universe takes a turn for the dark or overly tragic... It's simply not coming. Quote: Quote:I do wonder how much development time the Vision can get in "Infinity War" when it seems like Thanos will be ripping a chunk of his head out to assemble the gauntlet. That's development right there! I've heard speculation that the Vision might head to space to investigate the mind gem, which of couse makes people question whether he might pop up in Guardians of the Galaxy 2. Oddly enough, it seems like he'd be a good fit with that weirdness. Especially if they introduce Mantis to that cast... Quote: Quote: It's a bit weird because the Marvel stuff can mine things in both directions... past and future. Not only do they drop plenty of references to the past batch of films, but we get a really enjoyable set-up for the Black Panther film as well. I thought that Andy Serkis was great as Klaw, and I loved the little accident that befell him. Serkis did very well indeed. A very strong start for the Panther mythos. I honestly feel like it's a shame that T'challa will be introduced in "Civil War", where he could be somewhat lost among the giant cast. However, I can clearly see why Vibranium will now be a point of contention on the world stage. I could honestly see that being the central point of conflict instead... Not registration (which seems small and pointless in this version of the Marvel Universe), but whether the Avengers (or the US, or the World Security Council, or whatever) should take Wakanda's vibranium to ensure it doesn't ever again end up in the hands of a mad robot bent on extinction. That's actually an issue where I could see different characters on different sides, since it wouldn't be "beat the other side into submission" so much as "seize the vibranium" vs. "stop them from seizing the vibranium". Quote: Quote:Quote: I was disappointed that Thor didn't get to say, "Ultron, we would have words with thee!" Quote: I was surprised they skipped it as well, but I suppose this Thor doesn't break out the "thee's" too often. If they can toss in Howard the Duck they can toss in that quote. Indeed. In the future, I will be sorely put out if they don't have the Vision shed a tear, and of course I'm expecting an "Ant-man shrinks and voyages into the Vision" scene at some point as well. And to have Cap someday actually say "Avengers Assemble!", of course. | ||
HH |
Subject: Re: My own thoughts on these two having now seen it as well [spoilers in general, although I'll try not to give too much away.] [Re: Visionary] Posted Fri May 08, 2015 at 03:35:05 pm EDT | |
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Posted with Microsoft Internet Explorer 7 4.0; on Windows XP
Quote: Quote: Whedon certainly seems "Avengered out" at the moment, but if any of the Marvel movies requires additional runtime to correct the bleeding cuts for timing purposes it is this one. Quote: I agree. I remember an interview from Anthony Mackie where he said people called him after the Avengers 2 movie poster came out and that's how he learned he was in the film. A bunch of people online thought that story was bull, as how could he not know he was in it? Considering the amount cut (including Loki) I'd say he was telling the truth... nobody knew if their cameos would make it to the final film.There's a whole "Making Of..." story that will probably never be fully told. I'd actually pay to read Whedon's full script, though. Quote: Apparently Marvel at one point suggested cutting all of the Scarlet Witch-induced dream sequences and the entire farm visit. That would have been a major change, and while I could see the dream sequences going (except maybe Stark's, as it displayed his motivations, and of course Thor's involvement would need to alter), losing the farm sequence would have been a huge mistake.It sounds as though this movie faced an awful lot of conflicting input. I'm glad that Whedon was able to retain the more human elements, which include the dream sequences. I'm heartily sick of movies edited by focus groups. Quote: Quote: Marvel's releases have now reached the magnitude that makes spoiler control very difficult.Quote: I've seen that substantial spoilers for "Civil War" have been making the rounds based on the unverified word of someone who claims to be "in the know", but that a great number of people seem to believe are accurate. Given Evans' reluctance to extend his contractual appearances beyond one more Cap movie and one more Avengers movie, some of the rumours seem to be extrapolations of the most pragmatic way to handle that in-story. Quote: Buy yes, with as much coordination between different parties as major releases need, it's inevitable that leaks are going to happen... intentionally or by complete accident. Apparently the toy industry is one of the worst offenders, since production lines for action figures etc. need to be set up months in advance. Quote: Quote: Quote: Yes... Thor's little side quest seemed cut down to the bare minimum. I can understand, as it really is a bit too tangential to the story here. Quote: It still felt like we had missed an important development there. We didn't get a real sense of any danger that Thor mentioned to Selvig, or even proper context for why Thor was taking a bath. It was a strange unbalanced cutaway from Cap and Stark chopping logs and Widow and Banner discussing bathroom arrangements.Quote: That's one of the bits where I have to wonder how well general audiences followed it all. Even I wasn't really clear on what Thor was supposed to be seeing... It seemed more like he walked in on a party where Heimdal was already drunk.The infinity stone graphics there told an interesting story, though, I thought. Quote: Quote: Quote:I really wanted an Ultron that could take the combined beating from the team and keep coming... That molten scene suggested such a thing, but never really happened. Ah well. Quote: I wanted Ultron Unlimited, but I was content with them borrowing Graviton's plot.Quote: It really was a Graviton thing, wasn't it? Speaking of which, I wonder if he'll reappear on Agents of SHIELD sometime. On the subject of that show, I guess we now know why they introduced a different love interest for Mockingbird...I'm quite enjoying Agents of SHIELD at the moment, though I was disappointed that their big Age of Ultron tie-in was effectively a pre-credits sequence only. I really felt that a proper crossover episode was needed this time, even if it was only to deal with the whole offscreen Struker death thing. Quote: On a tangent, I really like that they used "Agent Carter" to substantially set up the Red Room stuff prior to Age of Ultron. It put a lot more context into the rather disjointed scenes we had of the Black Widow's early training. I'd have liked to see a clearer line drawn between 1940s Jarvis, AI Jarvis, and Vision. Maybe now that Agent Carter has a second season? Quote: The Mjolnir scene is one of those things that Whedon does so well... not just in the the dialog and fun of the scene itself, but the way it's used in the call back for both a joke and to answer the question of trust in shorthand manner. What seems like filler, character-stuff serves an important purpose.Likewise some of the dialogue, such as Cap's quippy "If you get killed... walk it off", which takes a different significance given how Quicksilver goes out. Quote: Quote: We also had an immediate movie answer to the knotty comics debate as to whether Vision has to be intangible to fly.Quote: Yes, I noticed that right away. I don't much mind... I'm still more concerned about the fact that they didn't demonstrate that he could turn intangible at all. That just seems like a very simple thing to establish.Much more work required on the character. It's a shame Feige has announced there are no current plans for more One Shot shorts. Quote: I note that an article came out a while back discussing a set visit where the reporters witnessed a fight scene between the Vision and Thor immediately following his birth. I wonder if there was more to the scene in the movie before the Vision calmed down, or if reporters just interpreted what they saw as a "fight". I would have enjoyed a scene reminiscent of the Vision's 2nd issue, where Cap goads the team into fighting Vizh to demonstrate his powers.I did apprerciate how his sight of the city changed his reaction to his environment. Beautifully played by Bettany, heading right into his comment to Wanda, "Look again." Quote: Quote: Quote: It's true, and they play off of each other surprisingly well. I think movie Thor was happy to have another non-human on the team. Quote: It's a fairlly logical friendship given the SF version of Asgardians from the movieverse, but it was nice to see it laid out like that.Quote: I always felt like Thor would find any question of whether the Vision was alive or not to be rather foolish. He talks, he's reasonable, and he can fight... what other measure matters?Don't forget that one of his friends and allies is the Rigellian Recorder. He's also worked well with Beta Ray Bull's Scuttlebutt. Quote: Certainly though, seeing as the Asgardians interacted with the Collector in the "Dark World" after-credits scene, they've seen and interacted with weirder things than the Vision.Sif's Agents of SHIELD comments amplified this too. Quote: I spotted the Jocasta program on my first viewing of the film. I took it as being a bit of fun rather than a major plot point since there's really no logical reason for such an AI being in STark's collection.Quote: True, if they had any intention of following through on her classic origin. But if they're never going to get around to her (which would require bringing back Ultron anyway, which I don't see happening. I was kind of waiting for a child to find an Ultron head and kick it around though...) I'm kind of surprised they didn't just make her Stark's new A.I., considering that they went with a female one anyway.I think they were wise to shy away from that baggage. Quote: Quote: I was pleased to see the cooky quartet getting some time together, though a group shot of the four would have made me even happier. Quote: A missed opportunity for a simple reference, at least... Going in, I wondered if they were going to end with those 4 as the new line-up. I did like the new one introduced, although I feel like we won't really get to explore it because of that Civil War thing coming which will break up the team anyway. Interesting that everyone besides Vizh and Wanda are former military types.Some work need to be done to establish the team as something other than the B-vengers. Quote: Quote: I still can't get that excited about the Civil War idea. The whole concept is tainted for me by its comics execution.Quote: I figure they have to deviate substantially from it, not just because of character rights but because the whole idea in the comic just doesn't make much logical sense.My main concern now is that it will follow the original by having a team of heroes screw up and cause a massive civilian death toll to trigger registration. If that team is the new Avengers under Cap it offers an entirely different and unhealthy dynamic. If its some left-field newbies then they are straw men. The whole idea seems sour to shoehorn in. Even in comics, the reaction to the disaster rang hollow to me. In a continuity where the Leader can gamma bomb a city, where Ultron can wipe out a whole nation, where there can be Genoshan genocide, where the value of heroes working against conquering Kang even after government capitulation has recently been demonstrated, the politics and consequences after the New Warriors error all seemed terribly forced. Quote: In any event, I was quite pleased to hear Kevin Feige come out and say in a recent interview that fans should stop expecting a film where the Marvel Universe takes a turn for the dark or overly tragic... It's simply not coming.Good man. Quote: I've heard speculation that the Vision might head to space to investigate the mind gem, which of couse makes people question whether he might pop up in Guardians of the Galaxy 2. Oddly enough, it seems like he'd be a good fit with that weirdness. Especially if they introduce Mantis to that cast...There's something odd going on with Guardians 2, like James Gunn feels the need to compete with the Avengers franchise. First there's the Hulk in space rumour, and now the Vizh in space speculation. I'd really prefer a more standalone movie that builds on the core characters. They're not ready yet to shuffle aside for a properly-featured guest star. Quote: I honestly feel like it's a shame that T'challa will be introduced in "Civil War", where he could be somewhat lost among the giant cast. I'm assuming his appearance will end up being a bit like Hawkeye's in Thor 1, more of a cameo than a long sustained guest spot like Natasha's in Cap 2. Quote: However, I can clearly see why Vibranium will now be a point of contention on the world stage. I could honestly see that being the central point of conflict instead... Not registration (which seems small and pointless in this version of the Marvel Universe), but whether the Avengers (or the US, or the World Security Council, or whatever) should take Wakanda's vibranium to ensure it doesn't ever again end up in the hands of a mad robot bent on extinction. Quote: That's actually an issue where I could see different characters on different sides, since it wouldn't be "beat the other side into submission" so much as "seize the vibranium" vs. "stop them from seizing the vibranium".It might fit the Stark control freak theme, but I think they'll stick with the "controlling people on the Index" stuff that SHIELD is putting in place. Quote: Indeed. In the future, I will be sorely put out if they don't have the Vision shed a tear, and of course I'm expecting an "Ant-man shrinks and voyages into the Vision" scene at some point as well. Quote: And to have Cap someday actually say "Avengers Assemble!", of course.I think now that "Avengers Assemble" is going to have to wait for a triumphant Cap/Thor/Iron Man reunion in Infnity War 2. |
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