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Visionary
Moderator continues to fill the board waiting for the rest of the posters to return.
Member Since: Sat Jan 03, 2004 Posts: 2,131
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Subject: Weeks after it stopped being relevant online, I have finally seen "Iron Man 2" Posted Fri May 21, 2010 at 01:39:55 pm EDT (Viewed 501 times) |
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Posted with Apple iPad 531.21.10
First, on a side note, if you haven't read and responded to the latest Untold Tales, you really should. Not only is the new line-up story fun and informative, but we're waiting to find out about Hatty being shot in the head. Help the poor guy out by hurrying the next chapter along.
Here's also hoping that things are okay with our missing posters, and they've just found themselves busy as the summer months begin. I know some people were dealing with quite a lot in their private lives... I wish them all my best.
Anyway, "Iron Man 2"... I enjoyed it, although I would agree that it is not as good as the first film. I've heard a variety of theories as to why, but for me it ultimately comes down to the Homer Simpson quote: "It was just a bunch of stuff that happened." It was, for the most part, highly entertaining stuff, but it did lack a strong narrative to tie it all together and give weight to the most important parts.
With the original, it built well to him putting the beat-down on those terrorists in Afghanistan. We knew they were the bad guys, and we had a little extra set-up just before Iron Man arrived to really make us want someone to put a stop to them. The end battle wasn't as satisfying, but logically it made sense as Stane was tied to everything that had gone down before.
With the sequel, I just never felt that investment. There were some great scenes and sequences. The villain never did anything other than try to kill Stark. The personal journey of responsibility that the hero went through in the first movie was a bit more randomly applied in the second, and seemed disconnected from the threat of the villain... as did the quest to heal himself. I think the script could have used one more pass to strengthen up some themes to bring it all together.
That said, the movie is still solidly enjoyable. I liked all of the characters again, some more than I expected to (Fury, I will admit, worked better than I anticipated, although I still don't see him as anything more than Samuel Jackson in an eyepatch.) I'm not sure I ever saw "The Black Widow" in Scarlet Johannson, but I enjoyed her fight scenes.
The movie probably did its job in that I'm more interested in "Thor" after the end credits scene than I am "Iron Man 3"...
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Hatman
Member Since: Thu Jan 01, 1970 Posts: 618
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Subject: Re: Weeks after it stopped being relevant online, I have finally seen "Iron Man 2" [Re: Visionary] Posted Fri May 21, 2010 at 02:13:05 pm EDT (Viewed 509 times) |
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Posted with Mozilla Firefox 3.5.9 on Windows XP
Quote: First, on a side note, if you haven't read and responded to the latest Untold Tales, you really should. Not only is the new line-up story fun and informative, but we're waiting to find out about Hatty being shot in the head. Help the poor guy out by hurrying the next chapter along.
There's also a story from said head trauma victim that could be replied to as well...
Quote: Here's also hoping that things are okay with our missing posters, and they've just found themselves busy as the summer months begin. I know some people were dealing with quite a lot in their private lives... I wish them all my best.
Agreed.
Quote: With the original, it built well to him putting the beat-down on those terrorists in Afghanistan. We knew they were the bad guys, and we had a little extra set-up just before Iron Man arrived to really make us want someone to put a stop to them. The end battle wasn't as satisfying, but logically it made sense as Stane was tied to everything that had gone down before.
I thought that final fight scene was the only "weak" part of the first film; I thought the fight scenes were better in the sequel.
Quote: With the sequel, I just never felt that investment. There were some great scenes and sequences. The villain never did anything other than try to kill Stark. The personal journey of responsibility that the hero went through in the first movie was a bit more randomly applied in the second, and seemed disconnected from the threat of the villain... as did the quest to heal himself. I think the script could have used one more pass to strengthen up some themes to bring it all together.
I also think that Stark and Vanko were only in 2 scenes together, and that's including the final fight (where the actors don't really get to play off of each other). That struck me as a little strange, honestly, since the one scene they were in together was good.
Quote: That said, the movie is still solidly enjoyable. I liked all of the characters again, some more than I expected to (Fury, I will admit, worked better than I anticipated, although I still don't see him as anything more than Samuel Jackson in an eyepatch.) I'm not sure I ever saw "The Black Widow" in Scarlet Johannson, but I enjoyed her fight scenes.
I still don't like that the movies are going with Ultimate Nick Fury; the character just isn't the same as the cantankerous warhorse I know and love.
Considering the Widow was undercover, I guess it's okay you didn't see much of the Black Widow in the character. I thought that her costume looked right on (though her stingers looked a little plasticy to me). Her raid on Hammer Industries was fun, and at the same time I liked how Happy's fighting style was boxing (even though he only took out one guy).
As much as I hate when a character is played by a different actor in a sequel (with the other exception of Dark Knight and what's her name, the love interest), I thought that Cheadle was a better Rhodey than Howard was. Howard's Rhodey was just too soft-spoken for me; Cheadle felt tougher, which is needed to play Rhodey.
Even though I think the first film was the stronger of the two, the sequel offered up a lot of high octane fun, and that's alright to.
Quote: The movie probably did its job in that I'm more interested in "Thor" after the end credits scene than I am "Iron Man 3"...
I had already seen the after-credit scene on-line, which I regretted at the theatre because I wasn't as blown away as I should have been when I saw it on the big screen. I would've loved just a second or two more to admire Mjolnir, but oh well. I am very excited for the Thor film!
~Hat~
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Visionary
Moderator
Member Since: Sat Jan 03, 2004 Posts: 2,131
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Subject: Re: Weeks after it stopped being relevant online, I have finally seen "Iron Man 2" [Re: Hatman] Posted Fri May 21, 2010 at 02:44:56 pm EDT (Viewed 493 times) |
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Posted with Mozilla Firefox 3.6.3 on Windows XP
Quote: There's also a story from said head trauma victim that could be replied to as well...
I will personally round up a bus full of hobos to reply to your awesome story if it means the next part gets posted.
Quote:
I thought that final fight scene was the only "weak" part of the first film; I thought the fight scenes were better in the sequel.
For me, it was something of a wash. As I said, I actually got riled up by the Afghanistan fight scenes, and my biggest complaint was probably how short they were.
I saw that they brought in the "Samurai Jack" creator to help with the fight scenes in the sequel, but to be honest I mostly remember a lot of flying around and stuff blowing up.
Quote: I also think that Stark and Vanko were only in 2 scenes together, and that's including the final fight (where the actors don't really get to play off of each other). That struck me as a little strange, honestly, since the one scene they were in together was good.
It was definitely odd to have a villain be underground for the entire film, never increasing the stakes or ramping up the tension. He was just believed dead by everyone until the very end... and really, attacking Tony was the only bad thing we saw him do until the finale. There wasn't a big sense of "This guy must be defeated!" At worst, he would help a Stark rival make a big weapons deal with the US government... I wasn't entirely clear on why that would be so horrible.
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I still don't like that the movies are going with Ultimate Nick Fury; the character just isn't the same as the cantankerous warhorse I know and love.
I agree... I felt I had to grudgingly admit, however, that he wasn't as cartoonishly "off" feeling as he was in the original's post-credits scene.
I just saw the scene from "True Lies" where Charlton Heston plays a thinly veiled version of Nick Fury, and that was easily the far better character.
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Considering the Widow was undercover, I guess it's okay you didn't see much of the Black Widow in the character. I thought that her costume looked right on (though her stingers looked a little plasticy to me). Her raid on Hammer Industries was fun, and at the same time I liked how Happy's fighting style was boxing (even though he only took out one guy).
I enjoyed that sequence, and my only complaint about the Widow's costume was that she didn't actually use her bracelets for anything. In truth, I'm not sure what would make her "feel" like the Black Widow to me... We'll have to see what Joss Whedon does with her, if anything.
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As much as I hate when a character is played by a different actor in a sequel (with the other exception of Dark Knight and what's her name, the love interest), I thought that Cheadle was a better Rhodey than Howard was. Howard's Rhodey was just too soft-spoken for me; Cheadle felt tougher, which is needed to play Rhodey.
I was fine with it, and Cheadle did a good job. I do think the story kind of took for granted that affection from the first film would carry over to the characters on the second, and by changing the actors I think they hamstringed that a bit. The history of the characters from the first film didn't totally translate over to the conflict here because of the new face, for me.
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Even though I think the first film was the stronger of the two, the sequel offered up a lot of high octane fun, and that's alright to.
Definitely. I'm eager to see more Marvel movies, and if they're all as good as this one then they'll be in fine shape.
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Hatman
Member Since: Thu Jan 01, 1970 Posts: 618
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Subject: Re: Weeks after it stopped being relevant online, I have finally seen "Iron Man 2" [Re: Visionary] Posted Fri May 21, 2010 at 03:50:43 pm EDT (Viewed 470 times) |
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Posted with Mozilla Firefox 3.5.9 on Windows XP
Quote:
Quote: There's also a story from said head trauma victim that could be replied to as well...
Quote: I will personally round up a bus full of hobos to reply to your awesome story if it means the next part gets posted.
Can you round up a bus full of hobos to help write it? I haven't had a chance to work on the next chapter yet; I've been refereeing soccer almost every night this week.
Quote: I saw that they brought in the "Samurai Jack" creator to help with the fight scenes in the sequel, but to be honest I mostly remember a lot of flying around and stuff blowing up.
Well, the original Whiplash fight was mostly Iron Man just standing in one spot to Whiplash could continue to flail at him. I actually liked the fight between Tony and Rhodey at Tony's birthday party, though I don't know if they explained how Rhodey powered up the old suit without an arc reactor in his chest.
I do remember thinking though when Whiplash showed up in his armour at the end (which should have been red for two reasons; one to acknowledge they'd combined the Crimson Dynamo with Whiplash for the villain, and two so he stood out more from the War Machine armor visually) that they committed a cardinal Iron Man sin; they had Whiplash create the more powerful armor.
Tony is supposed to be the ultimate inventor in his story, but here we have someone else building a more powerful suit of armor (in the first story we had the plot device of Tony running on a primitive version of the arc reactor that was never designed to power his newer suit). If Whiplash hadn't been dumb enough to open up his mask I don't even know if "crossing the streams" would have worked.
Quote:
Quote: I also think that Stark and Vanko were only in 2 scenes together, and that's including the final fight (where the actors don't really get to play off of each other). That struck me as a little strange, honestly, since the one scene they were in together was good.
Quote: It was definitely odd to have a villain be underground for the entire film, never increasing the stakes or ramping up the tension. He was just believed dead by everyone until the very end... and really, attacking Tony was the only bad thing we saw him do until the finale. There wasn't a big sense of "This guy must be defeated!" At worst, he would help a Stark rival make a big weapons deal with the US government... I wasn't entirely clear on why that would be so horrible.
I guess Justin Hammer was supposed to be the villain doing that, but really he was a whole new character with the only similarity being the name (and company I guess). Kind of like Nick Fury really; familiar name, new character. I didn't necessarily mind the type of characte Hammer was, he just wasn't Justin Hammer.
Quote:
Quote: I still don't like that the movies are going with Ultimate Nick Fury; the character just isn't the same as the cantankerous warhorse I know and love.
Quote: I agree... I felt I had to grudgingly admit, however, that he wasn't as cartoonishly "off" feeling as he was in the original's post-credits scene.
The more I see of Fury the more it bugs me, actually. He doesn't look like the head of SHIELD to me; his agents run around in suits, not military uniforms, and he's not dressed in either.
Quote: Considering the Widow was undercover, I guess it's okay you didn't see much of the Black Widow in the character. I thought that her costume looked right on (though her stingers looked a little plasticy to me). Her raid on Hammer Industries was fun, and at the same time I liked how Happy's fighting style was boxing (even though he only took out one guy).
Quote: I enjoyed that sequence, and my only complaint about the Widow's costume was that she didn't actually use her bracelets for anything. In truth, I'm not sure what would make her "feel" like the Black Widow to me... We'll have to see what Joss Whedon does with her, if anything.
I agree I was disappointed the bracelets weren't used. Whedon isn't confirmed yet though, is he?
Quote:
Quote: As much as I hate when a character is played by a different actor in a sequel (with the other exception of Dark Knight and what's her name, the love interest), I thought that Cheadle was a better Rhodey than Howard was. Howard's Rhodey was just too soft-spoken for me; Cheadle felt tougher, which is needed to play Rhodey.
Quote: I was fine with it, and Cheadle did a good job. I do think the story kind of took for granted that affection from the first film would carry over to the characters on the second, and by changing the actors I think they hamstringed that a bit. The history of the characters from the first film didn't totally translate over to the conflict here because of the new face, for me.
Agree completely here.
Quote:
Quote: Even though I think the first film was the stronger of the two, the sequel offered up a lot of high octane fun, and that's alright to.
Quote: Definitely. I'm eager to see more Marvel movies, and if they're all as good as this one then they'll be in fine shape.
For sure. Iron Man 2 was still better in my mind than Ghost Rider, Incredible Hulk, the Fantastic Four Films, X3...
~Hat
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Visionary
Moderator
Member Since: Sat Jan 03, 2004 Posts: 2,131
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Subject: How many hobos does it take to write a chapter? [Re: Hatman] Posted Fri May 21, 2010 at 06:13:50 pm EDT (Viewed 523 times) |
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Posted with Mozilla Firefox 3.6.3 on Windows XP
Quote: Can you round up a bus full of hobos to help write it? I haven't had a chance to work on the next chapter yet; I've been refereeing soccer almost every night this week.
I think maybe it'd be easier to teach the hobos to referee soccer for you rather than explain the Parodyverse. Your call though.
Quote: Whedon isn't confirmed yet though, is he?
Marvel seems to be taking pains to point that out. But then, news about Hugo Weaving playing the Red Skull in Captain America was out for nearly two months before Marvel "confirmed" it... so it's likely a matter of salary negotiations and schedules and such. I'm sure it could still fall through, but until it does I just assume it's much stronger than a rumor.
Quote: Well, the original Whiplash fight was mostly Iron Man just standing in one spot to Whiplash could continue to flail at him. I actually liked the fight between Tony and Rhodey at Tony's birthday party, though I don't know if they explained how Rhodey powered up the old suit without an arc reactor in his chest.
They play fast and loose with some of those details. Rhodey also seems to have known exactly how to work it as well. They at least gave a nod to the fact that you would have expected Tony would have some kind of security to keep someone else from piloting one, or that Jarvis wouldn't suit someone up without authorization, by Fury pointing out that he "let" Rhodey fly off with one of his suits.
I liked the Monaco sequence quite a bit, even though the fight wasn't far ranging. My main issue is something all of these superhero films seem to do these days... going with the assumption that because someone is a super-hero or super-villain, regardless of what their powers are of how they got them, they can shake off damage that would cripple a human. There was plenty of that in "Spider-man 2" with the Spidey/Doc Ock fight, and then when Whiplash was hit by the car here I had the same reaction.
Quote: I do remember thinking though when Whiplash showed up in his armour at the end (which should have been red for two reasons; one to acknowledge they'd combined the Crimson Dynamo with Whiplash for the villain, and two so he stood out more from the War Machine armor visually) that they committed a cardinal Iron Man sin; they had Whiplash create the more powerful armor.
Tony is supposed to be the ultimate inventor in his story, but here we have someone else building a more powerful suit of armor (in the first story we had the plot device of Tony running on a primitive version of the arc reactor that was never designed to power his newer suit). If Whiplash hadn't been dumb enough to open up his mask I don't even know if "crossing the streams" would have worked.
Good points on both. I guess since Iron Man is red, they didn't want to go that way, but I would have liked to have seen a design more original looking than what they ended up with.
And I thought "crossing the streams" as well for the finale. Of course, I also wondered why they didn't just shoot him directly in the face for that matter.
Quote: I guess Justin Hammer was supposed to be the villain doing that, but really he was a whole new character with the only similarity being the name (and company I guess). Kind of like Nick Fury really; familiar name, new character. I didn't necessarily mind the type of characte Hammer was, he just wasn't Justin Hammer.
I don't know the Justin Hammer of the comics at all, but I really enjoyed Sam Rockwell's character. I hope he comes back to go after Pepper in the next one.
Quote: The more I see of Fury the more it bugs me, actually. He doesn't look like the head of SHIELD to me; his agents run around in suits, not military uniforms, and he's not dressed in either.
That was my main problem with him in the after-credits scene. I was like "*This* guy is the boss of those professional agents in suits? This guy skulking around Los Angeles in a black turtleneck, trench coat and eyepatch?" He really seemed like he was from some completely different property. With the Black Widow's outfit, he at least looked somewhat more integrated here, and they gave him much more natural sounding dialog to spout. Still, I believe that he's a totally needless expense. He essentially was given all of the lines that would have gone to Agent Coulson had they never introduced him in the first place. The movie would have felt more cohesive, and Marvel would have saved on Sam Jackson's salary.
I really think Marvel needs to hold back on these kinds of cameoes until such characters are actually needed. All they are doing is limiting the options when it finally comes time to add the characters for a reason. Now they're pretty much stuck shoe-horning in Sam Jackson Fury with each property since they've signed him to a 9 picture deal before any scripts requiring him were even written.
Quote: Quote:
Definitely. I'm eager to see more Marvel movies, and if they're all as good as this one then they'll be in fine shape.
For sure. Iron Man 2 was still better in my mind than Ghost Rider, Incredible Hulk, the Fantastic Four Films, X3...
It wasn't until this point that I realized a slightly worrying trend in Marvel's self-produced films. All three of them (Iron Man 1 & 2, Incredible Hulk) end with a fight for a fight's sake. There's really nothing bigger at stake. In the first 2 X-men films, there was a plot to stop, innocents to save. With Spider-man 2 there was Ock's experiment that would destroy the city, with Batman Begins there was the fear chemical in the water supply, and so on. With these Marvel Films, there's a bad guy who wants to fight the hero, and that's it.
I don't think that's going to continue to cut it... I think they'll need to start introducing villains who have something greater to achieve, so there's more to the climaxes of these films.
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Al B. Harper
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Subject: I haven't seen it yet. But yes - I echo your sentiments about wishing our missing posters well and a speedy return to the board. [Re: Visionary] Posted Fri May 21, 2010 at 07:58:29 pm EDT (Viewed 1 times) |
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Posted with Mozilla Firefox 3.6.3 on Windows XP
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Al B. Harper
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Subject: A bus load! [Re: Visionary] Posted Fri May 21, 2010 at 08:36:23 pm EDT (Viewed 1 times) |
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Posted with Mozilla Firefox 3.6.3 on Windows XP
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Nitz the Bloody
Member Since: Mon Jun 21, 2004 Posts: 139
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Subject: I agree that it was flawed but fun... [Re: Visionary] Posted Fri May 21, 2010 at 09:16:20 pm EDT (Viewed 475 times) |
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Posted with Apple Safari 4.0.5 on MacOS X
...I admit to and regret being absent, since my blooming career as a freelance writer should give me more time to get caught up on the goings-on of my friends, but these days it's so hard to separate work from fun on my ( not always well ) self-disciplined schedule, that I have a hard time keeping track of everything. I don't know if there are any other freelancers on this board, but I could use some advice on how to manage everything without the nervous breakdown aspect...
Anyway, I liked Iron Man 2 a lot, and I thought there were some utterly brilliant scenes in it. My favorite two being Tony drunk in the armor, for the sheer painfulness his embarrassing actions exude, and the post-humous message from Howard Stark, which actually made me tear up. Scenes like those go a long way towards making up for the shortcomings in other places, like the lack of evidence that Iron Man is actually protecting America ( since the only threats we see-- Vanko and Hammer-- were brought in by going after Stark, and would not have menaced civilians if Tony didn't exist ).
Also, the thing with Tony's heart poisoning him reminded me of a story by Kurt Busiek in Iron Man's third volume, where he finds out that the armor's ambient energy is killing him. In both cases, it sets up a dilemma where Tony's life as Iron Man is destroying him and he needs to make some hard decisions about his identity-- then completely voids the dilemma by having him fix the problem with his inventive genius, and gets to resume his self-destructive lifestyle without learning anything. At least here there was the symbolic aspect of Tony working with SHIELD and finding his father's notes, along with his hook-up with Pepper at the end ( something we never really got to in the comics ), but it's still annoying.
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Visionary
Moderator
Member Since: Sat Jan 03, 2004 Posts: 2,131
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Subject: Here's a real fan... [Re: Visionary] Posted Fri May 21, 2010 at 10:23:39 pm EDT (Viewed 537 times) |
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Posted with Apple iPad 531.21.10
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CrazySugarFreakBoy!
Member Since: Sun Jan 04, 2004 Posts: 1,235
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Subject: Yeah, I saw some other pics of his suit. It's insanely well-built. [Re: Visionary] Posted Fri May 21, 2010 at 11:42:19 pm EDT (Viewed 428 times) |
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Posted with Microsoft Internet Explorer 7 4.0; on Windows Vista
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CrazySugarFreakBoy!
Member Since: Sun Jan 04, 2004 Posts: 1,235
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Subject: I won't get to see it until next weekend. :/ [Re: Visionary] Posted Fri May 21, 2010 at 11:43:00 pm EDT (Viewed 448 times) |
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Posted with Microsoft Internet Explorer 7 4.0; on Windows Vista
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Al B. Harper
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Subject: Link isn't working for me, alas. [Re: Visionary] Posted Sat May 22, 2010 at 02:17:35 am EDT |
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Posted with Mozilla Firefox 3.6.3 on Windows XP
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Visionary
Moderator
Member Since: Sat Jan 03, 2004 Posts: 2,131
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Subject: Re: I agree that it was flawed but fun... [Re: Nitz the Bloody] Posted Sat May 22, 2010 at 08:22:05 pm EDT (Viewed 518 times) |
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Posted with Apple iPad 531.21.10
Quote: ...I admit to and regret being absent, since my blooming career as a freelance writer should give me more time to get caught up on the goings-on of my friends, but these days it's so hard to separate work from fun on my ( not always well ) self-disciplined schedule, that I have a hard time keeping track of everything. I don't know if there are any other freelancers on this board, but I could use some advice on how to manage everything without the nervous breakdown aspect...
Hmmmm... Without the nervous breakdown? I admire your ambition.
I just finished a killer two weeks working freelance on a game project. Really, some weeks I have no life outside of work, while others I have way too much free time. Scheduling is rough... I wish I had some tricks to tell you.
Quote: Anyway, I liked Iron Man 2 a lot, and I thought there were some utterly brilliant scenes in it. My favorite two being Tony drunk in the armor, for the sheer painfulness his embarrassing actions exude, and the post-humous message from Howard Stark, which actually made me tear up. Scenes like those go a long way towards making up for the shortcomings in other places, like the lack of evidence that Iron Man is actually protecting America ( since the only threats we see-- Vanko and Hammer-- were brought in by going after Stark, and would not have menaced civilians if Tony didn't exist ).
I kind of wonder how "privatizing world peace" keeps the company in the black. Unless you loot the countries you conquer...
Quote:
Also, the thing with Tony's heart poisoning him reminded me of a story by Kurt Busiek in Iron Man's third volume, where he finds out that the armor's ambient energy is killing him. In both cases, it sets up a dilemma where Tony's life as Iron Man is destroying him and he needs to make some hard decisions about his identity-- then completely voids the dilemma by having him fix the problem with his inventive genius, and gets to resume his self-destructive lifestyle without learning anything. At least here there was the symbolic aspect of Tony working with SHIELD and finding his father's notes, along with his hook-up with Pepper at the end ( something we never really got to in the comics ), but it's still annoying.
I couldn't help but notice that Tony suffered from one of those Hollywood poisonings where you can be cured and not have any lasting consequences. Actually, that new element he creates not only doesn't poison his body further, it apparently cures all the lingering effects of the paladium in his bloodstream. We should all have some of this stuff jammed in our chests.
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Visionary
Moderator
Member Since: Sat Jan 03, 2004 Posts: 2,131
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Subject: It'll probably still be in theaters. [Re: CrazySugarFreakBoy!] Posted Sat May 22, 2010 at 08:24:42 pm EDT (Viewed 498 times) |
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Posted with Apple iPad 531.21.10
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