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Hatman
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Subject: Some thoughts on my recent reading Posted Thu Jan 03, 2008 at 01:36:40 pm EST |
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Posted with Microsoft Internet Explorer 7 on Windows XP
I thought since it's a little slow I'd share a bit abouy what I've been reading lately. Well, what I read yesterday, anyway; I opened up the school gym for people to come down and use (give the kids something to do while they're not in school), and the combination of my shipment of 6 tradepaperbacks arriving and the complete lack of anyone showing up gave me about 4-5 hours of reading.
Anyway, here are my thoughts on "Avengers: The Initiative" (collecting #1-6). This is getting kind of lengthy so maybe I'll post thoughts on what else I read later.
I originally didn't get this title because nothing about it seemed to indicate that the Avengers were actually in the book, and I was trying to avoid adding new titles. However, from what I'd seen on-line the art looked good and the book wasn't bad, and since Dan Slott is the writer (by far one of my favourite writers) I figured I'd buy the hardcover since it was a good price.
Things I liked:
- Gauntlet. I don't think I've ever read anything with him in it, but I enjoyed him as a drill instructor here. Comments made by his wife showed he believe in tough love, but he cared for his recruits.
- Justice. Vance was given the absolute perfect role for him in this book as a sort of youth consellor to the trainees. Considering his stage fright in Avengers vol 3 I thought he was perfect for this role. He also tries to act as the Initiative's conscience; he remembers what it means to be a superhero, not a super-soldier.
- Slapstick. Simply the fact that Slott chose to include him (I have his original mini, I think it cost me $2 for all 4 issues) made me smile, even though he didn't really do anything until #6.
- Cloud 9. Of the new characters, she was by far my favourite. She illustrates perfectly the flaw in the Initiative; she simply wants to fly. She doesn't want to be a super-soldier, but the government simply doesn't care. They give her a pulse rifle and tell her to shoot people, simply because she can fly. If you have the power to change the colour of your fingernails at will, are they going to put you in the army against your will too?
- Gyrich. The perfect choice to run the "Superhuman Armed Forces". I particularly liked his scene with the Beast, and his comment to the Shadow Initiative that 7 members is the perfect number.
- Dani Moonstar and Trauma. I liked how Dani was brought in to train Trauma with his fear powers. I loved how she saw beyond the military application of his powers to another way he could help people. This, along with Cloud 9's situation, show how superpowers can be used for more than fighting, which the Initiative doesn't seem to see.
- New Warriors. I liked how the distinction was being made between a "New Warrior" and an "Avenger", mostly by Gauntlet. It added a spark to the series, especially with Rage and Justice being around. I should clarify I personally didn't like the way Gauntlet was using the name New Warriors, but from a story point of view it was well done.
Things I'm Unsure of:
Yellowjacket - Hank had a few good moments (insisting on an ethical line in their experiments, taking down the HYDRA ship), but they were outweighed in my mind by how he's completely bought into the government's stance on things. Spying on the recruits, constantly citing "Classified" and "Top Secret", Hank came off as kind of a jerk. I loved Hank during his "Dr. Pym" days in Avengers West Coast, and I liked how Kurt Busiek was trying to heal Hank as well, but it keeps getting undone and that trend continues here.
I suppose a question that could be asked would be "Would Hank be following Tony so blindly if Captain America was still alive?" Even though Hank joined the pro-Reg side right away, it could be argued that in the absence of a leader like Cap Hank has completely attached himself to the strongest leader around right now, Iron Man. If Cap was around, Hank might doubt what they're doing a lot more.
War Machine - For the most part I did like Rhodey as the head of Camp Hammond. What gets me is that Rhodey went after Spider-Man with the SPIN Tech. I understand why the Initiative would want him out of the way, seeing as he was their poster boy, but the fact that Rhodey would go along with it willingly and actively hunt him down bothered me.
Rage - Gauntlet told him he couldn't be a fully licensed superhero because he was unstable and whatnot, but they don't really take the time to consider that Rage is insulted by being forced into Initiative training. He was an Avenger, and has been a superhero for a few years (Marvel time) now. Do they consider that maybe he's not taking well to the training is the fact he doesn't feel he needs it? He had multiple disagreements with other Avengers who out-ranked him (Justice and Triathlon) when they tried to pull the fact they were "Avengers" on him, and really I can't say I blame him for getting upset. I guess the reason this is in the "Unsure" category is I felt that Rage in this situation was written correctly, I'm just not sure he should have been a trainee in the first place. He's been around longer than Triathlon, one of his field instructors.
Things I Disliked:
Armory - The way they handled her after one mishap. True, she did kill MVP, but really I'd say the responsibility lies with Gauntlet. They were still testing her abilities, and Trauma's. It should have been an instructor down there with Trauma, not a recruit. It appeared harmless to leave her with him, but in hindsight it never should have happened. Gauntlet should have been held accountable and Armory receive counselling, not the boot.
The Jump Gates - War Machine mentioned how the gates wear down the barrier between positive and negative space. You think they would have learned by now that's just asking for a Negative Zone invasion.
Hank and Tigra - Really I think my only gripe with this is Hank and Jan had patched things up in Avengers vol 3 and to me Hank and Jan are one of those timeless, meant for each other couples (like Scott and Jean, Green Arrow and Black Canary, etc). Chuck Austen quickly tore that apart and this is the result.
I'm sure I could go on with more, but I've probably bored you to tears already.
~Hat~
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killer shrike
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Subject: Initiative may be my favorite book right now: [Re: Hatman] Posted Thu Jan 03, 2008 at 05:27:38 pm EST |
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Posted with Microsoft Internet Explorer 7 on Windows Vista
Because I like the overall theme that it seems to have: that superheroes aren't made, they're born.
> Things I liked:
> - Gauntlet. I don't think I've ever read anything with him in it, but I enjoyed him as a drill instructor here. Comments made by his wife showed he believe in tough love, but he cared for his recruits.
>
|
I wasn't a big fan of the character, and quite enjoyed his comeuppance. The new DI is much better.
> - Justice. Vance was given the absolute perfect role for him in this book as a sort of youth consellor to the trainees. Considering his stage fright in Avengers vol 3 I thought he was perfect for this role. He also tries to act as the Initiative's conscience; he remembers what it means to be a superhero, not a super-soldier.
>
|
Vance is one of the few sympathetic heroes in this, which probably means something awful is going to happen to him.
> - Slapstick. Simply the fact that Slott chose to include him (I have his original mini, I think it cost me $2 for all 4 issues) made me smile, even though he didn't really do anything until #6.
>
|
I wasn't a huge fan of him until his infamous heel turn.
> - Cloud 9. Of the new characters, she was by far my favourite. She illustrates perfectly the flaw in the Initiative; she simply wants to fly. She doesn't want to be a super-soldier, but the government simply doesn't care. They give her a pulse rifle and tell her to shoot people, simply because she can fly. If you have the power to change the colour of your fingernails at will, are they going to put you in the army against your will too?
>
|
Cloud 9 is a good character, but Komodo is my personal favorite recruit.
> - Gyrich. The perfect choice to run the "Superhuman Armed Forces". I particularly liked his scene with the Beast, and his comment to the Shadow Initiative that 7 members is the perfect number.
>
|
Gyrich is great, and I love Baron Blitzschlag as well.
> - Dani Moonstar and Trauma. I liked how Dani was brought in to train Trauma with his fear powers. I loved how she saw beyond the military application of his powers to another way he could help people. This, along with Cloud 9's situation, show how superpowers can be used for more than fighting, which the Initiative doesn't seem to see.
>
|
The Moonstar/Beast cameo was a nice touch.
> - New Warriors. I liked how the distinction was being made between a "New Warrior" and an "Avenger", mostly by Gauntlet. It added a spark to the series, especially with Rage and Justice being around. I should clarify I personally didn't like the way Gauntlet was using the name New Warriors, but from a story point of view it was well done.
>
|
I like how the denigrating of the Warriors has been a constant theme.
> Things I'm Unsure of:
> Yellowjacket - Hank had a few good moments (insisting on an ethical line in their experiments, taking down the HYDRA ship), but they were outweighed in my mind by how he's completely bought into the government's stance on things. Spying on the recruits, constantly citing "Classified" and "Top Secret", Hank came off as kind of a jerk. I loved Hank during his "Dr. Pym" days in Avengers West Coast, and I liked how Kurt Busiek was trying to heal Hank as well, but it keeps getting undone and that trend continues here.
>
|
Hank certainly suffers from some extreme hubris here, trying to make up for past mistakes I guess. And its looking like he'll be getting his comeuppance soon.
> I suppose a question that could be asked would be "Would Hank be following Tony so blindly if Captain America was still alive?" Even though Hank joined the pro-Reg side right away, it could be argued that in the absence of a leader like Cap Hank has completely attached himself to the strongest leader around right now, Iron Man. If Cap was around, Hank might doubt what they're doing a lot more.
>
|
There's some flashbacks in the most recent issue that look at Hank, Reed, and Tony right after Stamford that may interest you.
> War Machine - For the most part I did like Rhodey as the head of Camp Hammond. What gets me is that Rhodey went after Spider-Man with the SPIN Tech. I understand why the Initiative would want him out of the way, seeing as he was their poster boy, but the fact that Rhodey would go along with it willingly and actively hunt him down bothered me.
>
|
Unless Rhodey isn't Rhodey.....
> Rage - Gauntlet told him he couldn't be a fully licensed superhero because he was unstable and whatnot, but they don't really take the time to consider that Rage is insulted by being forced into Initiative training. He was an Avenger, and has been a superhero for a few years (Marvel time) now. Do they consider that maybe he's not taking well to the training is the fact he doesn't feel he needs it? He had multiple disagreements with other Avengers who out-ranked him (Justice and Triathlon) when they tried to pull the fact they were "Avengers" on him, and really I can't say I blame him for getting upset. I guess the reason this is in the "Unsure" category is I felt that Rage in this situation was written correctly, I'm just not sure he should have been a trainee in the first place. He's been around longer than Triathlon, one of his field instructors.
>
|
Not a huge Rage fan myself.
> Things I Disliked:
> Armory - The way they handled her after one mishap. True, she did kill MVP, but really I'd say the responsibility lies with Gauntlet. They were still testing her abilities, and Trauma's. It should have been an instructor down there with Trauma, not a recruit. It appeared harmless to leave her with him, but in hindsight it never should have happened. Gauntlet should have been held accountable and Armory receive counselling, not the boot.
>
|
It was a pretty brutal way to treat a wash out, but you'll be pleased to kn ow her story isn't quite over yet.
> The Jump Gates - War Machine mentioned how the gates wear down the barrier between positive and negative space. You think they would have learned by now that's just asking for a Negative Zone invasion.
>
|
Annihlation II: Electric Boogaloo?
(Incidentally, I'm currently working my way through the Annihlation trades and enjoyed Book 1, especially the Nova stuff)
> Hank and Tigra - Really I think my only gripe with this is Hank and Jan had patched things up in Avengers vol 3 and to me Hank and Jan are one of those timeless, meant for each other couples (like Scott and Jean, Green Arrow and Black Canary, etc). Chuck Austen quickly tore that apart and this is the result.
>
|
See, I hate Hank and Jan as couple. Its all well and good for them to come to terms with what happened, but they're more interesting when they're not romantically linked.
> I'm sure I could go on with more, but I've probably bored you to tears already.
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Not I. Keep 'em coming!
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Hatman
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Subject: I certainly enjoyed it [Re: killer shrike] Posted Thu Jan 03, 2008 at 05:52:14 pm EST |
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Posted with Microsoft Internet Explorer 6 on Windows 2000
>
> Because I like the overall theme that it seems to have: that superheroes aren't made, they're born.
>
|
That's a nice way to sum it up.
>
>
> > Things I liked:
> > - Gauntlet. I don't think I've ever read anything with him in it, but I enjoyed him as a drill instructor here. Comments made by his wife showed he believe in tough love, but he cared for his recruits.
> >
>
> I wasn't a big fan of the character, and quite enjoyed his comeuppance. The new DI is much better.
>
|
I haven't gotten that far yet. I think I'm going to stick to the trades for this series.
> > - Slapstick. Simply the fact that Slott chose to include him (I have his original mini, I think it cost me $2 for all 4 issues) made me smile, even though he didn't really do anything until #6.
> >
>
> I wasn't a huge fan of him until his infamous heel turn.
>
|
For $2 I rather enjoyed his original mini, it was fun. The fact that Slott brought in such an obscure character made me smile though.
>
> > - Cloud 9. Of the new characters, she was by far my favourite. She illustrates perfectly the flaw in the Initiative; she simply wants to fly. She doesn't want to be a super-soldier, but the government simply doesn't care. They give her a pulse rifle and tell her to shoot people, simply because she can fly. If you have the power to change the colour of your fingernails at will, are they going to put you in the army against your will too?
> >
>
> Cloud 9 is a good character, but Komodo is my personal favorite recruit.
>
|
That doesn't surprise me, actually. Although she does have the problem of being a "2nd rate Lizard", as Spider-Man put it.
>
> > - Gyrich. The perfect choice to run the "Superhuman Armed Forces". I particularly liked his scene with the Beast, and his comment to the Shadow Initiative that 7 members is the perfect number.
> >
>
> Gyrich is great, and I love Baron Blitzschlag as well.
>
|
The Baron's praising of Hank as being very "Amerikan" was pretty chilling.
> > I suppose a question that could be asked would be "Would Hank be following Tony so blindly if Captain America was still alive?" Even though Hank joined the pro-Reg side right away, it could be argued that in the absence of a leader like Cap Hank has completely attached himself to the strongest leader around right now, Iron Man. If Cap was around, Hank might doubt what they're doing a lot more.
> >
>
> There's some flashbacks in the most recent issue that look at Hank, Reed, and Tony right after Stamford that may interest you.
>
>
|
I look forward to that, when the next trade comes out.
> > War Machine - For the most part I did like Rhodey as the head of Camp Hammond. What gets me is that Rhodey went after Spider-Man with the SPIN Tech. I understand why the Initiative would want him out of the way, seeing as he was their poster boy, but the fact that Rhodey would go along with it willingly and actively hunt him down bothered me.
> >
>
> Unless Rhodey isn't Rhodey.....
>
|
Stupid Skrulls...
>
> > Rage - Gauntlet told him he couldn't be a fully licensed superhero because he was unstable and whatnot, but they don't really take the time to consider that Rage is insulted by being forced into Initiative training. He was an Avenger, and has been a superhero for a few years (Marvel time) now. Do they consider that maybe he's not taking well to the training is the fact he doesn't feel he needs it? He had multiple disagreements with other Avengers who out-ranked him (Justice and Triathlon) when they tried to pull the fact they were "Avengers" on him, and really I can't say I blame him for getting upset. I guess the reason this is in the "Unsure" category is I felt that Rage in this situation was written correctly, I'm just not sure he should have been a trainee in the first place. He's been around longer than Triathlon, one of his field instructors.
> >
>
> Not a huge Rage fan myself.
>
|
Rage isn't one of my favourite characters or anything by far, but that's what I came away with knowing the history of the character.
>
> > Things I Disliked:
> > Armory - The way they handled her after one mishap. True, she did kill MVP, but really I'd say the responsibility lies with Gauntlet. They were still testing her abilities, and Trauma's. It should have been an instructor down there with Trauma, not a recruit. It appeared harmless to leave her with him, but in hindsight it never should have happened. Gauntlet should have been held accountable and Armory receive counselling, not the boot.
> >
>
> It was a pretty brutal way to treat a wash out, but you'll be pleased to kn ow her story isn't quite over yet.
>
|
I didn't think it was, especially since nobody can get her weapon to work without her. Gyrich wants his "big gun" after all.
>
> > The Jump Gates - War Machine mentioned how the gates wear down the barrier between positive and negative space. You think they would have learned by now that's just asking for a Negative Zone invasion.
> >
>
>
> Annihlation II: Electric Boogaloo?
>
> (Incidentally, I'm currently working my way through the Annihlation trades and enjoyed Book 1, especially the Nova stuff)
|
I enjoyed the Super Skrull and Ronan mini's the most, along with the actual Annihilation series. I did love the stuff done with the Heralds of Galactus too though...really it was an all around great event.
>
> > Hank and Tigra - Really I think my only gripe with this is Hank and Jan had patched things up in Avengers vol 3 and to me Hank and Jan are one of those timeless, meant for each other couples (like Scott and Jean, Green Arrow and Black Canary, etc). Chuck Austen quickly tore that apart and this is the result.
> >
>
> See, I hate Hank and Jan as couple. Its all well and good for them to come to terms with what happened, but they're more interesting when they're not romantically linked.
>
|
It seems to me that even when not romantically linked they still care deeply for each other, in my mind.
>
> > I'm sure I could go on with more, but I've probably bored you to tears already.
>
>
> Not I. Keep 'em coming!
|
Would you prefer a review of X-Men: First Class (Vol. 1), Green Arrow: Road to Jericho (Vol. 9), or Daredevil: Hell to Pay?
~Hat~
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killer shrike
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Subject: I'll say Daredevil, since at least then I'll have an informed opinion. [Re: Hatman] Posted Thu Jan 03, 2008 at 07:15:04 pm EST |
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Posted with Microsoft Internet Explorer 7 on Windows Vista
> >
> > Because I like the overall theme that it seems to have: that superheroes aren't made, they're born.
> >
>
> That's a nice way to sum it up.
> >
> >
> > > Things I liked:
> > > - Gauntlet. I don't think I've ever read anything with him in it, but I enjoyed him as a drill instructor here. Comments made by his wife showed he believe in tough love, but he cared for his recruits.
> > >
> >
> > I wasn't a big fan of the character, and quite enjoyed his comeuppance. The new DI is much better.
> >
>
> I haven't gotten that far yet. I think I'm going to stick to the trades for this series.
>
> > > - Slapstick. Simply the fact that Slott chose to include him (I have his original mini, I think it cost me $2 for all 4 issues) made me smile, even though he didn't really do anything until #6.
> > >
> >
> > I wasn't a huge fan of him until his infamous heel turn.
> >
>
> For $2 I rather enjoyed his original mini, it was fun. The fact that Slott brought in such an obscure character made me smile though.
>
> >
> > > - Cloud 9. Of the new characters, she was by far my favourite. She illustrates perfectly the flaw in the Initiative; she simply wants to fly. She doesn't want to be a super-soldier, but the government simply doesn't care. They give her a pulse rifle and tell her to shoot people, simply because she can fly. If you have the power to change the colour of your fingernails at will, are they going to put you in the army against your will too?
> > >
> >
> > Cloud 9 is a good character, but Komodo is my personal favorite recruit.
> >
>
> That doesn't surprise me, actually. Although she does have the problem of being a "2nd rate Lizard", as Spider-Man put it.
>
> >
> > > - Gyrich. The perfect choice to run the "Superhuman Armed Forces". I particularly liked his scene with the Beast, and his comment to the Shadow Initiative that 7 members is the perfect number.
> > >
> >
> > Gyrich is great, and I love Baron Blitzschlag as well.
> >
>
> The Baron's praising of Hank as being very "Amerikan" was pretty chilling.
>
> > > I suppose a question that could be asked would be "Would Hank be following Tony so blindly if Captain America was still alive?" Even though Hank joined the pro-Reg side right away, it could be argued that in the absence of a leader like Cap Hank has completely attached himself to the strongest leader around right now, Iron Man. If Cap was around, Hank might doubt what they're doing a lot more.
> > >
> >
> > There's some flashbacks in the most recent issue that look at Hank, Reed, and Tony right after Stamford that may interest you.
> >
> >
> I look forward to that, when the next trade comes out.
>
> > > War Machine - For the most part I did like Rhodey as the head of Camp Hammond. What gets me is that Rhodey went after Spider-Man with the SPIN Tech. I understand why the Initiative would want him out of the way, seeing as he was their poster boy, but the fact that Rhodey would go along with it willingly and actively hunt him down bothered me.
> > >
> >
> > Unless Rhodey isn't Rhodey.....
> >
>
> Stupid Skrulls...
>
> >
> > > Rage - Gauntlet told him he couldn't be a fully licensed superhero because he was unstable and whatnot, but they don't really take the time to consider that Rage is insulted by being forced into Initiative training. He was an Avenger, and has been a superhero for a few years (Marvel time) now. Do they consider that maybe he's not taking well to the training is the fact he doesn't feel he needs it? He had multiple disagreements with other Avengers who out-ranked him (Justice and Triathlon) when they tried to pull the fact they were "Avengers" on him, and really I can't say I blame him for getting upset. I guess the reason this is in the "Unsure" category is I felt that Rage in this situation was written correctly, I'm just not sure he should have been a trainee in the first place. He's been around longer than Triathlon, one of his field instructors.
> > >
> >
> > Not a huge Rage fan myself.
> >
>
> Rage isn't one of my favourite characters or anything by far, but that's what I came away with knowing the history of the character.
>
> >
> > > Things I Disliked:
> > > Armory - The way they handled her after one mishap. True, she did kill MVP, but really I'd say the responsibility lies with Gauntlet. They were still testing her abilities, and Trauma's. It should have been an instructor down there with Trauma, not a recruit. It appeared harmless to leave her with him, but in hindsight it never should have happened. Gauntlet should have been held accountable and Armory receive counselling, not the boot.
> > >
> >
> > It was a pretty brutal way to treat a wash out, but you'll be pleased to kn ow her story isn't quite over yet.
> >
>
> I didn't think it was, especially since nobody can get her weapon to work without her. Gyrich wants his "big gun" after all.
>
> >
> > > The Jump Gates - War Machine mentioned how the gates wear down the barrier between positive and negative space. You think they would have learned by now that's just asking for a Negative Zone invasion.
> > >
> >
> >
> > Annihlation II: Electric Boogaloo?
> >
> > (Incidentally, I'm currently working my way through the Annihlation trades and enjoyed Book 1, especially the Nova stuff)
>
> I enjoyed the Super Skrull and Ronan mini's the most, along with the actual Annihilation series. I did love the stuff done with the Heralds of Galactus too though...really it was an all around great event.
> >
> > > Hank and Tigra - Really I think my only gripe with this is Hank and Jan had patched things up in Avengers vol 3 and to me Hank and Jan are one of those timeless, meant for each other couples (like Scott and Jean, Green Arrow and Black Canary, etc). Chuck Austen quickly tore that apart and this is the result.
> > >
> >
> > See, I hate Hank and Jan as couple. Its all well and good for them to come to terms with what happened, but they're more interesting when they're not romantically linked.
> >
>
> It seems to me that even when not romantically linked they still care deeply for each other, in my mind.
> >
> > > I'm sure I could go on with more, but I've probably bored you to tears already.
> >
> >
> > Not I. Keep 'em coming!
>
> Would you prefer a review of X-Men: First Class (Vol. 1), Green Arrow: Road to Jericho (Vol. 9), or Daredevil: Hell to Pay?
>
> ~Hat~
|
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Hatman
|
Subject: I'll see if I can get to it tomorrow or Saturday then. Daredevil it is [Re: killer shrike] Posted Thu Jan 03, 2008 at 09:10:52 pm EST (Viewed 560 times) |
|
Posted with Microsoft Internet Explorer 6 on Windows XP
> > >
> > > Because I like the overall theme that it seems to have: that superheroes aren't made, they're born.
> > >
> >
> > That's a nice way to sum it up.
> > >
> > >
> > > > Things I liked:
> > > > - Gauntlet. I don't think I've ever read anything with him in it, but I enjoyed him as a drill instructor here. Comments made by his wife showed he believe in tough love, but he cared for his recruits.
> > > >
> > >
> > > I wasn't a big fan of the character, and quite enjoyed his comeuppance. The new DI is much better.
> > >
> >
> > I haven't gotten that far yet. I think I'm going to stick to the trades for this series.
> >
> > > > - Slapstick. Simply the fact that Slott chose to include him (I have his original mini, I think it cost me $2 for all 4 issues) made me smile, even though he didn't really do anything until #6.
> > > >
> > >
> > > I wasn't a huge fan of him until his infamous heel turn.
> > >
> >
> > For $2 I rather enjoyed his original mini, it was fun. The fact that Slott brought in such an obscure character made me smile though.
> >
> > >
> > > > - Cloud 9. Of the new characters, she was by far my favourite. She illustrates perfectly the flaw in the Initiative; she simply wants to fly. She doesn't want to be a super-soldier, but the government simply doesn't care. They give her a pulse rifle and tell her to shoot people, simply because she can fly. If you have the power to change the colour of your fingernails at will, are they going to put you in the army against your will too?
> > > >
> > >
> > > Cloud 9 is a good character, but Komodo is my personal favorite recruit.
> > >
> >
> > That doesn't surprise me, actually. Although she does have the problem of being a "2nd rate Lizard", as Spider-Man put it.
> >
> > >
> > > > - Gyrich. The perfect choice to run the "Superhuman Armed Forces". I particularly liked his scene with the Beast, and his comment to the Shadow Initiative that 7 members is the perfect number.
> > > >
> > >
> > > Gyrich is great, and I love Baron Blitzschlag as well.
> > >
> >
> > The Baron's praising of Hank as being very "Amerikan" was pretty chilling.
> >
> > > > I suppose a question that could be asked would be "Would Hank be following Tony so blindly if Captain America was still alive?" Even though Hank joined the pro-Reg side right away, it could be argued that in the absence of a leader like Cap Hank has completely attached himself to the strongest leader around right now, Iron Man. If Cap was around, Hank might doubt what they're doing a lot more.
> > > >
> > >
> > > There's some flashbacks in the most recent issue that look at Hank, Reed, and Tony right after Stamford that may interest you.
> > >
> > >
> > I look forward to that, when the next trade comes out.
> >
> > > > War Machine - For the most part I did like Rhodey as the head of Camp Hammond. What gets me is that Rhodey went after Spider-Man with the SPIN Tech. I understand why the Initiative would want him out of the way, seeing as he was their poster boy, but the fact that Rhodey would go along with it willingly and actively hunt him down bothered me.
> > > >
> > >
> > > Unless Rhodey isn't Rhodey.....
> > >
> >
> > Stupid Skrulls...
> >
> > >
> > > > Rage - Gauntlet told him he couldn't be a fully licensed superhero because he was unstable and whatnot, but they don't really take the time to consider that Rage is insulted by being forced into Initiative training. He was an Avenger, and has been a superhero for a few years (Marvel time) now. Do they consider that maybe he's not taking well to the training is the fact he doesn't feel he needs it? He had multiple disagreements with other Avengers who out-ranked him (Justice and Triathlon) when they tried to pull the fact they were "Avengers" on him, and really I can't say I blame him for getting upset. I guess the reason this is in the "Unsure" category is I felt that Rage in this situation was written correctly, I'm just not sure he should have been a trainee in the first place. He's been around longer than Triathlon, one of his field instructors.
> > > >
> > >
> > > Not a huge Rage fan myself.
> > >
> >
> > Rage isn't one of my favourite characters or anything by far, but that's what I came away with knowing the history of the character.
> >
> > >
> > > > Things I Disliked:
> > > > Armory - The way they handled her after one mishap. True, she did kill MVP, but really I'd say the responsibility lies with Gauntlet. They were still testing her abilities, and Trauma's. It should have been an instructor down there with Trauma, not a recruit. It appeared harmless to leave her with him, but in hindsight it never should have happened. Gauntlet should have been held accountable and Armory receive counselling, not the boot.
> > > >
> > >
> > > It was a pretty brutal way to treat a wash out, but you'll be pleased to kn ow her story isn't quite over yet.
> > >
> >
> > I didn't think it was, especially since nobody can get her weapon to work without her. Gyrich wants his "big gun" after all.
> >
> > >
> > > > The Jump Gates - War Machine mentioned how the gates wear down the barrier between positive and negative space. You think they would have learned by now that's just asking for a Negative Zone invasion.
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Annihlation II: Electric Boogaloo?
> > >
> > > (Incidentally, I'm currently working my way through the Annihlation trades and enjoyed Book 1, especially the Nova stuff)
> >
> > I enjoyed the Super Skrull and Ronan mini's the most, along with the actual Annihilation series. I did love the stuff done with the Heralds of Galactus too though...really it was an all around great event.
> > >
> > > > Hank and Tigra - Really I think my only gripe with this is Hank and Jan had patched things up in Avengers vol 3 and to me Hank and Jan are one of those timeless, meant for each other couples (like Scott and Jean, Green Arrow and Black Canary, etc). Chuck Austen quickly tore that apart and this is the result.
> > > >
> > >
> > > See, I hate Hank and Jan as couple. Its all well and good for them to come to terms with what happened, but they're more interesting when they're not romantically linked.
> > >
> >
> > It seems to me that even when not romantically linked they still care deeply for each other, in my mind.
> > >
> > > > I'm sure I could go on with more, but I've probably bored you to tears already.
> > >
> > >
> > > Not I. Keep 'em coming!
> >
> > Would you prefer a review of X-Men: First Class (Vol. 1), Green Arrow: Road to Jericho (Vol. 9), or Daredevil: Hell to Pay?
> >
> > ~Hat~
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Visionary
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Subject: I gave it a try last year... [Re: Hatman] Posted Thu Jan 03, 2008 at 09:31:24 pm EST |
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Posted with Mozilla Firefox 2.0.0.11 on Windows XP
I thought there was a lot of good stuff in it, but I really disliked the state of the Marvel Universe it presented... Everything you mention in regards to Cloud 9, for instance... I just don't want to pay money to see characters I like support and defend that kind of thing.
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L!
Location: Seattle, Washington Member Since: Sun Jan 04, 2004 Posts: 1,038
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Subject: It's a book I've been picking up & do enjoy. [Re: Hatman] Posted Fri Jan 04, 2008 at 12:08:09 pm EST (Viewed 463 times) |
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Posted with Apple Safari 3.0.4 on MacOS X
Cloud 9 is one of my fav. recruits, too.
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Al B. Harper
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Subject: Gauntlet? The X-villain? [Re: Hatman] Posted Fri Jan 04, 2008 at 08:58:49 pm EST |
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Posted with Microsoft Internet Explorer 6 on Windows XP
> I thought since it's a little slow I'd share a bit abouy what I've been reading lately. Well, what I read yesterday, anyway; I opened up the school gym for people to come down and use (give the kids something to do while they're not in school), and the combination of my shipment of 6 tradepaperbacks arriving and the complete lack of anyone showing up gave me about 4-5 hours of reading.
>
> Anyway, here are my thoughts on "Avengers: The Initiative" (collecting #1-6). This is getting kind of lengthy so maybe I'll post thoughts on what else I read later.
>
> I originally didn't get this title because nothing about it seemed to indicate that the Avengers were actually in the book, and I was trying to avoid adding new titles. However, from what I'd seen on-line the art looked good and the book wasn't bad, and since Dan Slott is the writer (by far one of my favourite writers) I figured I'd buy the hardcover since it was a good price.
>
> Things I liked:
> - Gauntlet. I don't think I've ever read anything with him in it, but I enjoyed him as a drill instructor here. Comments made by his wife showed he believe in tough love, but he cared for his recruits.
>
> - Justice. Vance was given the absolute perfect role for him in this book as a sort of youth consellor to the trainees. Considering his stage fright in Avengers vol 3 I thought he was perfect for this role. He also tries to act as the Initiative's conscience; he remembers what it means to be a superhero, not a super-soldier.
>
> - Slapstick. Simply the fact that Slott chose to include him (I have his original mini, I think it cost me $2 for all 4 issues) made me smile, even though he didn't really do anything until #6.
>
> - Cloud 9. Of the new characters, she was by far my favourite. She illustrates perfectly the flaw in the Initiative; she simply wants to fly. She doesn't want to be a super-soldier, but the government simply doesn't care. They give her a pulse rifle and tell her to shoot people, simply because she can fly. If you have the power to change the colour of your fingernails at will, are they going to put you in the army against your will too?
>
> - Gyrich. The perfect choice to run the "Superhuman Armed Forces". I particularly liked his scene with the Beast, and his comment to the Shadow Initiative that 7 members is the perfect number.
>
> - Dani Moonstar and Trauma. I liked how Dani was brought in to train Trauma with his fear powers. I loved how she saw beyond the military application of his powers to another way he could help people. This, along with Cloud 9's situation, show how superpowers can be used for more than fighting, which the Initiative doesn't seem to see.
>
> - New Warriors. I liked how the distinction was being made between a "New Warrior" and an "Avenger", mostly by Gauntlet. It added a spark to the series, especially with Rage and Justice being around. I should clarify I personally didn't like the way Gauntlet was using the name New Warriors, but from a story point of view it was well done.
>
> Things I'm Unsure of:
> Yellowjacket - Hank had a few good moments (insisting on an ethical line in their experiments, taking down the HYDRA ship), but they were outweighed in my mind by how he's completely bought into the government's stance on things. Spying on the recruits, constantly citing "Classified" and "Top Secret", Hank came off as kind of a jerk. I loved Hank during his "Dr. Pym" days in Avengers West Coast, and I liked how Kurt Busiek was trying to heal Hank as well, but it keeps getting undone and that trend continues here.
>
> I suppose a question that could be asked would be "Would Hank be following Tony so blindly if Captain America was still alive?" Even though Hank joined the pro-Reg side right away, it could be argued that in the absence of a leader like Cap Hank has completely attached himself to the strongest leader around right now, Iron Man. If Cap was around, Hank might doubt what they're doing a lot more.
>
> War Machine - For the most part I did like Rhodey as the head of Camp Hammond. What gets me is that Rhodey went after Spider-Man with the SPIN Tech. I understand why the Initiative would want him out of the way, seeing as he was their poster boy, but the fact that Rhodey would go along with it willingly and actively hunt him down bothered me.
>
> Rage - Gauntlet told him he couldn't be a fully licensed superhero because he was unstable and whatnot, but they don't really take the time to consider that Rage is insulted by being forced into Initiative training. He was an Avenger, and has been a superhero for a few years (Marvel time) now. Do they consider that maybe he's not taking well to the training is the fact he doesn't feel he needs it? He had multiple disagreements with other Avengers who out-ranked him (Justice and Triathlon) when they tried to pull the fact they were "Avengers" on him, and really I can't say I blame him for getting upset. I guess the reason this is in the "Unsure" category is I felt that Rage in this situation was written correctly, I'm just not sure he should have been a trainee in the first place. He's been around longer than Triathlon, one of his field instructors.
>
> Things I Disliked:
> Armory - The way they handled her after one mishap. True, she did kill MVP, but really I'd say the responsibility lies with Gauntlet. They were still testing her abilities, and Trauma's. It should have been an instructor down there with Trauma, not a recruit. It appeared harmless to leave her with him, but in hindsight it never should have happened. Gauntlet should have been held accountable and Armory receive counselling, not the boot.
>
> The Jump Gates - War Machine mentioned how the gates wear down the barrier between positive and negative space. You think they would have learned by now that's just asking for a Negative Zone invasion.
>
> Hank and Tigra - Really I think my only gripe with this is Hank and Jan had patched things up in Avengers vol 3 and to me Hank and Jan are one of those timeless, meant for each other couples (like Scott and Jean, Green Arrow and Black Canary, etc). Chuck Austen quickly tore that apart and this is the result.
>
> I'm sure I could go on with more, but I've probably bored you to tears already.
>
> ~Hat~
>
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Hatman
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Subject: I believe this Gauntlet is a new character that has had only one other non-speaking appearance [Re: Al B. Harper] Posted Sat Jan 05, 2008 at 12:39:49 pm EST (Viewed 520 times) |
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Posted with Mozilla Firefox 2.0.0.11 on MacOS X
nt
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Hatman
Location: Seattle, Washington Member Since: Sun Jan 04, 2004 Posts: 1,038
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Subject: I think I'm going to stick to the trade route for this one, but I like it [Re: L!] Posted Sat Jan 05, 2008 at 12:41:00 pm EST (Viewed 486 times) |
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Posted with Mozilla Firefox 2.0.0.11 on MacOS X
> Cloud 9 is one of my fav. recruits, too.
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Hatman
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Subject: Re: I gave it a try last year... [Re: Visionary] Posted Sat Jan 05, 2008 at 12:46:57 pm EST (Viewed 478 times) |
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Posted with Mozilla Firefox 2.0.0.11 on MacOS X
> I thought there was a lot of good stuff in it, but I really disliked the state of the Marvel Universe it presented... Everything you mention in regards to Cloud 9, for instance... I just don't want to pay money to see characters I like support and defend that kind of thing.
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I think the fact that there are a lot of new characters helps; and other than the blips in Pym's and Rhodey's behaviour (and Hank gets written all over the board usually anyway) I do find that all the characters are in-character.
I agree that the militaristic nature of the MU these days isn't one I overly enjoy, which is why I pretty much stick to more insulated titles these days (Iron Fist, Thor, and Daredevil are stories that could be told with or without the Registration stuff, and Captain America feels like it could happen either way as well and is a phenomenal read to boot). With Avengers: The Initiative though it focuses on the characters rather than the state of things around them, and as such I still enjoy the book.
I think it safe to say though that if Dan Slott stops writing it I'll probably stop reading it (much like She-Hulk, sadly).
~Hat~
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