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CrazySugarFreakBoy!
Member Since: Sun Jan 04, 2004 Posts: 1,235
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Subject: Tigra, New Avengers, Bendis, Brady & The Blogosphere Posted Sat Oct 20, 2007 at 11:21:27 am EDT (Viewed 626 times) |
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Posted with Microsoft Internet Explorer 7 on Windows XP
Holy fucking shit, Matt Brady is getting his dick knocked into the dirt by the blogosphere for his softball interview of Brian Michael Bendis regarding Tigra's brutal beatdown in New Avengers #35, even by Newsarama's OWN BLOG. Indeed, one blogger argues that this might merely be the opening cusp of a harmonic convergence of sorts, while another delivers the single most vicious, eloquent and accurate evisceration of the misogyny, not only in New Avengers #35, but also in Bendis' entire writing career to date.
At this point, Bendis, Brady, Joe Quesada and all their like-minded cohorts have been proven to be so wrong, to such an unquestionable and impossible-to-ignore extreme, that it's like watching the "FLAWLESS VICTORY!!!" finishing move in Mortal Kombat, to the extent that all that's missing is for a pixelated version of Kurt Busiek (who, by Internet axiom, Is Always Right) to rip out these guys' spines, with their heads still attached, before they die.
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killer shrike
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Subject: My take: [Re: CrazySugarFreakBoy!] Posted Sat Oct 20, 2007 at 11:42:45 am EDT (Viewed 1 times) |
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Posted with Microsoft Internet Explorer 7 on Windows Vista
Bendis thinks the idea of Superheroes are silly. Bendis doesn't like Tigra. Bendis really wants to write crime fiction. So he wrote a crime fiction scene where a superhero acts like a victim instead of what she truly is, and he picked a character he doesn't like.
Its bad fan boy writing.
I do want to try and pick up that Deodarto (sp) Tigra mini, though. Looks good.
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Visionary
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Subject: Re: Tigra, New Avengers, Bendis, Brady & The Blogosphere [Re: CrazySugarFreakBoy!] Posted Sat Oct 20, 2007 at 12:25:03 pm EDT (Viewed 1 times) |
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Posted with Mozilla Firefox 2.0.0.8 on Windows XP
I notice Bendis says he treats all characters equally, pointing to Daredevil. Did his run on Daredevil end with him being a murdering, insane man who had retreated to a simple life in Eastern Europe to hide from reality? One quick and rough definition that he should consider: Heroes persevere or go down fighting... Victims are broken.
Reading the replies to a lot of these posts, I find it telling that a number of people who excuse the scene seem to think that there's going to be some great, future "justice" scene where Tigra comes out on top of this Hood character. My own experience with Bendis' writing leads me to believe that just isn't the case... The whole point of this scene (from Bendis's view, apparently) is to build up the Hood to a major level. If Tigra were to come back and castrate him (literally or metaphorically) then it would undo that effort. I don't think that's in the cards.
As a further aside, I'm still amazed at the seeming pass that the actual editor in charge of these characters and stories, Tom Brevoort, gets for all of the things that are done in these books. The idea that he and the writer are "new to each other" seems to be well past being a viable excuse. One assumes that when this scene came into his office, he didn't think that Tigra should fight back in any way, or had so little influence over the title he edits as to not be able to make this scene more palatable.
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Visionary
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Subject: This strikes me as a most accurate summary. [Re: killer shrike] Posted Sat Oct 20, 2007 at 12:26:53 pm EDT |
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Posted with Mozilla Firefox 2.0.0.8 on Windows XP
> Bendis thinks the idea of Superheroes are silly. Bendis doesn't like Tigra. Bendis really wants to write crime fiction. So he wrote a crime fiction scene where a superhero acts like a victim instead of what she truly is, and he picked a character he doesn't like.
>
> Its bad fan boy writing.
>
> I do want to try and pick up that Deodarto (sp) Tigra mini, though. Looks good.
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killer shrike
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Subject: The end of Daredevil [Re: Visionary] Posted Sat Oct 20, 2007 at 12:50:38 pm EDT (Viewed 1 times) |
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Posted with Microsoft Internet Explorer 7 on Windows Vista
>
> I notice Bendis says he treats all characters equally, pointing to Daredevil. Did his run on Daredevil end with him being a murdering, insane man who had retreated to a simple life in Eastern Europe to hide from reality? One quick and rough definition that he should consider: Heroes persevere or go down fighting... Victims are broken.
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I know yours was a rhetorical question, but Bendis concluded his run on the title by having DD locked in prison to await trial for obstruction of justice alongside his enemies (Kingpin, Gladiator, etc). Superhero and supervillains, all together, and as the director of the FBI (who alternates between being a somewhat sympathetic figure and a total bastard throughout Bendis's tenure) says, if they all kill one another while locked up, that would be "fantastic."
I always found that to be a nice snapshot of Bendis's view of superheroes in general.
EDIT: But no, he never has Daredevil act like a victim, despite the intense amount of dumping on he gets throughout the book. He definitely never has him beg his opponents to "Stop" while getting the crap beaten out of him.
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HH
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Subject: Re: The end of Daredevil [Re: killer shrike] Posted Sat Oct 20, 2007 at 01:11:50 pm EDT (Viewed 1 times) |
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Posted with Microsoft Internet Explorer 6 on Windows 2000
> But no, he never has Daredevil act like a victim, despite the intense amount of dumping on he gets throughout the book. He definitely never has him beg his opponents to "Stop" while getting the crap beaten out of him.
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Haven't read this Tigra book and have only heard about it for you folks but:
In Avengers #215 by Jim Shooter, Tigra is so frightened after the Molecule Man has just trashed Thor, Iron Man, and Cap that she breaks down and cries and begs for her life. She pulls herself round later but it's part of the reason she elected not to stick around as an Avenger at the time.
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Visionary
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Subject: Re: The end of Daredevil [Re: killer shrike] Posted Sat Oct 20, 2007 at 01:32:06 pm EDT (Viewed 1 times) |
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Posted with Mozilla Firefox 2.0.0.8 on Windows XP
> >
> > I notice Bendis says he treats all characters equally, pointing to Daredevil. Did his run on Daredevil end with him being a murdering, insane man who had retreated to a simple life in Eastern Europe to hide from reality? One quick and rough definition that he should consider: Heroes persevere or go down fighting... Victims are broken.
>
>
> I know yours was a rhetorical question, but Bendis concluded his run on the title by having DD locked in prison to await trial for obstruction of justice alongside his enemies (Kingpin, Gladiator, etc). Superhero and supervillains, all together, and as the director of the FBI (who alternates between being a somewhat sympathetic figure and a total bastard throughout Bendis's tenure) says, if they all kill one another while locked up, that would be "fantastic."
>
> I always found that to be a nice snapshot of Bendis's view of superheroes in general.
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Interesting. And the question wasn't entirely rhetorical (although the phrasing was)... Since Bendis pointed to it as an example of how he is just as rough on his male characters, I was honestly curious as to whether it really was an equal match. Even with the summary, though, I don't quite know. Utter defeat (if that's what it even was) and victimization aren't really the same thing...
Edit: Your edit helps answer that one some.
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Visionary
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Subject: Re: The end of Daredevil *edited* [Re: HH] Posted Sat Oct 20, 2007 at 01:50:20 pm EDT |
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Posted with Mozilla Firefox 2.0.0.8 on Windows XP
> > But no, he never has Daredevil act like a victim, despite the intense amount of dumping on he gets throughout the book. He definitely never has him beg his opponents to "Stop" while getting the crap beaten out of him.
>
> Haven't read this Tigra book and have only heard about it for you folks but:
>
> In Avengers #215 by Jim Shooter, Tigra is so frightened after the Molecule Man has just trashed Thor, Iron Man, and Cap that she breaks down and cries and begs for her life. She pulls herself round later but it's part of the reason she elected not to stick around as an Avenger at the time.
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As you note, you haven't read it. There's a fairly hefty difference to the subtext of a rookie losing courage in the face of overwhelming power and a seasoned heroine offering no fight while being brutalized and begging to what appears to simply be a man with a gun while another villain video tapes it and plays it back for a bar full of guys.
Edit: Reading that back, that sounds rather argumentative. Sorry about that... poor phrasing. It should be more of an "I think when you read it you'll find a hefty difference in the subtext between the two."
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killer shrike
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Subject: Re: The end of Daredevil [Re: HH] Posted Sat Oct 20, 2007 at 01:58:09 pm EDT |
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Posted with Microsoft Internet Explorer 7 on Windows Vista
> > But no, he never has Daredevil act like a victim, despite the intense amount of dumping on he gets throughout the book. He definitely never has him beg his opponents to "Stop" while getting the crap beaten out of him.
>
> Haven't read this Tigra book and have only heard about it for you folks but:
>
> In Avengers #215 by Jim Shooter, Tigra is so frightened after the Molecule Man has just trashed Thor, Iron Man, and Cap that she breaks down and cries and begs for her life. She pulls herself round later but it's part of the reason she elected not to stick around as an Avenger at the time.
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Yeah, and wasn't there some story where she gets burnt by Ghost Rider's hellfire and suffers from crippling fear as well? Also by Shooter? However, there are plenty of instances since then where the character has faced overwhelming odds and overcome them.
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HH
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Subject: Re: The end of Daredevil [Re: killer shrike] Posted Tue Oct 23, 2007 at 07:30:19 am EDT (Viewed 1 times) |
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Posted with Microsoft Internet Explorer 6 on Windows 2000
> > In Avengers #215 by Jim Shooter, Tigra is so frightened after the Molecule Man has just trashed Thor, Iron Man, and Cap that she breaks down and cries and begs for her life. She pulls herself round later but it's part of the reason she elected not to stick around as an Avenger at the time.
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> Yeah, and wasn't there some story where she gets burnt by Ghost Rider's hellfire and suffers from crippling fear as well? Also by Shooter? However, there are plenty of instances since then where the character has faced overwhelming odds and overcome them.
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Well, the point of the Ghost Rider story was how she overcame her crippling fear. In fact she spoke about fighting past that experience later in #250 when team-mate Captain Marvel had been badly affected by Phobos' fear powers.
I have no wish to defend Bendis' story, but it's only fair to recognise that Greer has crumpled at least once before when she's been terrified for her life.
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Hatman
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Subject: I keep waiting for a jump-off point for New Avengers, but I don't think there will be one. I think I'm going to make it now [Re: CrazySugarFreakBoy!] Posted Tue Oct 23, 2007 at 10:31:03 am EDT (Viewed 448 times) |
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Posted with Microsoft Internet Explorer 7 on Windows XP
> Holy fucking shit, Matt Brady is getting his dick knocked into the dirt by the blogosphere for his softball interview of Brian Michael Bendis regarding Tigra's brutal beatdown in New Avengers #35, even by Newsarama's OWN BLOG. Indeed, one blogger argues that this might merely be the opening cusp of a harmonic convergence of sorts, while another delivers the single most vicious, eloquent and accurate evisceration of the misogyny, not only in New Avengers #35, but also in Bendis' entire writing career to date.
>
> At this point, Bendis, Brady, Joe Quesada and all their like-minded cohorts have been proven to be so wrong, to such an unquestionable and impossible-to-ignore extreme, that it's like watching the "FLAWLESS VICTORY!!!" finishing move in Mortal Kombat, to the extent that all that's missing is for a pixelated version of Kurt Busiek (who, by Internet axiom, Is Always Right) to rip out these guys' spines, with their heads still attached, before they die.
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