... And it's exactly what we all thought it would be:

SPOILERS
Mirror for SPOILERS

Goddammit.

...is that May chooses to sacrifice herself to save Peter and Mary Jane's love. It would be very in character for May and is probably the next best death option for her after her original and heartfelt death in ASM #400.

~Hat~

... From the Free Comic Book Day issue of Amazing Spider-Man which introduced the "Brand New Day" status quo, we know that Aunt May is alive and well, and neither she nor anyone else knows that Peter Parker is Spider-Man.

Scott NIGHT CHILDREN: THE BLOG. Come see!

Briefly stepping out of character...

I personally don't think that serialized characters should be married. There should be exceptions for parental-types--Reed and Sue definitely fall into this category--but I don't think Spidey should. My ideal would be for Peter and MJ to be living together but not married, as there are more directions they can go from there. Serialized storytelling is already full of "riskless" drama. When Superman risks his life to fight Metallo, the reader knows he isn't actually going to die, or if he does, that it won't be for long. And that's okay, because there are other things, more personal things, that actually can be at risk. But marriage can screw that up. If Clark and Lois have a fight, I know nothing's at stake, as DC would never have them get divorced, and a retcon would be a major undertaking. There's no drama there. (Not to say that the only relationship drama can come from whether a couple stays together or breaks up, but you know what I mean.) If Peter and MJ weren't married, they could actually act like a regular couple, as there wouldn't be a metatextual impetus keeping them locked together, and a major change wouldn't be necessary for them to break up from time to time.

To me, the Spider-marriage isn't essential to the mythos. I'd compare it to Dick Grayson being Robin. Yeah, it was a big deal for forty-some years, but then they moved on. When a non-essential aspect has been in place for twenty years, as the marriage has, I have no problem trying something different for a while. I've no idea if it'll be good or not, but we aren't talking about some sacrosanct conceptual element here.

I'm currently reading more Marvel comics than I usually do. Brubaker's Cap and DD are always good, Brubaker and Fraction's Iron Fist has been a breath of fresh air, Ellis' Thunderbolts is hilarious, I'm looking forward to Millar and Hitch's FF run...

But how do you get parental types otherwise? Do all characters have to have kids before they get married? Besides, Peter and Mary Jane were parents, until their child was taken from them.

>
My ideal would be for Peter and MJ to be living together but not married, as there are more directions they can go from there. Serialized storytelling is already full of "riskless" drama. When Superman risks his life to fight Metallo, the reader knows he isn't actually going to die, or if he does, that it won't be for long. And that's okay, because there are other things, more personal things, that actually can be at risk. But marriage can screw that up. If Clark and Lois have a fight, I know nothing's at stake, as DC would never have them get divorced, and a retcon would be a major undertaking.
>

Creating drama with "safe" characters is part of good story-telling. A good example would be the season finale to Season 1 or 2 (I forget off the top of my head) of Justice League. The JL got transported through time back to WWII, and I honestly had no idea how they were going to get out of the situation.

>
There's no drama there. (Not to say that the only relationship drama can come from whether a couple stays together or breaks up, but you know what I mean.) If Peter and MJ weren't married, they could actually act like a regular couple, as there wouldn't be a metatextual impetus keeping them locked together, and a major change wouldn't be necessary for them to break up from time to time.

A real couple? How is being married not being a real couple? And honestly, I don't want to see Peter and MJ periodically break up. There can be tension between them while still being married. An example would be MJ's smoking habit back in I think the early 90's (I just remember Bagley pencilling ASM at the time).



Using your Dick Grayson example, we watched Dick go from kid sidekick in short pants to being his own man that every superhero in the DCU respects. In short, he grew up. Peter started as an awkward high school student, went through college and the dating scene, and then got married. Peter grew up, but differently than Dick. The next logical step would be to have kids, which got derailed back during that whole Aunt May-actress garbage. As much as I love May, I would have loved her more had she stayed in the ground.


I've cut my books back a lot, but I'm loving Brubaker on Iron Fist, Captain America, and Daredevil (which I collect in trade format, as I started while Bendis was writing and his stories are much better in complete arcs as they're soooooo drawn out). She-Hulk and Thor round out my regular Marvel pulls.

~Hat~

Seriously? Don't agree here on all points. I mean, not married myself, but there's craploads of real tension and problems in even good, stable relationships with consequences that have nothing to do (in the short term) with a break-up/divorce. There's questions of career, of identity, of coping with the day to day of how to make a relationship and a life together (particularly in New York City) that have rarely, if ever, been touched. And just because you already know the outcome, doesn't mean that the journey won't be interesting; I mean, really, if you buy that premise, then why bother with just about any superhero comic?


You're right, we aren't. That's why Peter is single in the Marvel Adventures line; and the Ultimate Universe; and "Spider-Man Loves Mary Jane", and the movies, and any past or future cartoons. Right now, lots of places where you can get single Spider-Man and couples drama, and only two places where you can't (and Spider-Girl BARELY counts, but there is definitely a good example of a married Pete and MJ who have some disagreements but without putting the marriage on the line); but that's not enough to make Joe Quesada Happy, no. It's all or nothing. It's nothing more than Fanboy Entitlement run amok (see also: Didio's desire to have Nightwing killed off in Infinite Crisis).

Millar and Hitch on the FF makes me want to run away SCREAMING. And Brubaker is so relentlessly bleak that I'm not sure I even want to go thru the journey to see some light.. But I mean, good for you. Me, I'm done with Marvel until the "Nu Grim'n'Gritty" goes the way of the 90s die-cut foil cover.

Mr. Cynical

I really, really don't think they should be parents. Babies and serialized storytelling = bad combination, IMHO.


I'm not saying that, I'm just saying that there are (or rather, were) metatexual elements keeping them together, which had nothing to do with logic. Batman keeps letting the Joker live because the story demands it, and Peter and MJ stayed together because Marvel were afraid of divorce or a retcon (until now). A real couple can possibly break up, Peter and MJ were bound together by external forces. I understand that some aspects of these characters will never be at risk, but let's not create new aspects like that.

And I take your point on linear character progression--I personally have no interest in a "swinging single" Peter Parker--but I don't think the marriage added that much growth to the character, frankly.

Some outcomes are known; some are at risk. I don't think they should create more of the former, I think they should create more of the latter.


I try not to get into "fanboy" debates, but, from what I've seen, the diehard fans are supportive of the marriage. And I can't see Marvel corporate thinking that marriage, let alone kids, is a good idea long-term.


I have to admit, I've never seen any of these "grim and gritty" comics that people keep talking about. I've seen a lot of balanced books, some more light and some more dark, but I'd die from shock if I saw something actually dark. I flipped through that one DC mini (Identity Crisis, I think you said?) that everyone was angry at for being dark, but the tone struck me as that of your usual primetime TV show.

What shows are you watching that has a long time cast member murdered, her body set on fire, then retroactively raped?