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I'm making my comments with a view that your work on this board serves at least three purposes:

1. It provides a venue for the Parodyverse posting community
2. It acts as a testbed for a product that might get launched as a commercial application
3. It offers a laboratory to test new features and get some customer feedback

The first of those is the most important to me. I recall the difficulties of our original board move. Even before Zemo elected to shut down the board he'd been running there had been a period of problems with InsidetheWeb which had led us to actively consider moving. There was an offer from Alvaro to host the PVB at ComicBoards that was turned down because the posters preferred something that "felt" like the board they were used to - chain threads, customisable fonts and colours, long subject lines etc. Our eventual choice of homes has always been influenced by the our view that the board needs to be "fit for purpose".

Fit for purpose for the PVB really means "as encouraging as possible for people to read, write, and reply". Presentation, interface, archive, profiles, and everything else need to serve those three functions. Anything that improves them is good. Anything that hinders them is unhelpful.

What's new is that people are also beginning to value options. Some folks very much enjoy the ability to add tags and signature images, which enrich and simplify their posting experience and help give the board a homey feel. Others like to fix the way the board views to them to their own satisfaction. These things are therefore worthy of prioritisation too - as options.

The danger comes with what I call "The Publisher Effect". After all these years I still use Publisher 98, because after that the creators got fancy and added a zillion options. But all it meant to me was that basic things I could do in 98 with two menu clicks now take four or five (adding an image to a document, for example). So Publisher might be a better written product now but its less useful to me and I don't use it. There's a danger with any upgrade that complicates the user interface that it alienates the user.

I'll add one more function to the list, which is important to me:

4. The site provides pages which are easily transferrable as archives to my site so I can keep a permanent record of my work and of people's responses.

This one concerns me. The more the PVB uses specific non-transferrable icons (like the blue and red dots on the main page and smileys) the more I have transferred pages with little red crosses on white boxes all over them that I have to manually edit out. If the default display format remains with a column down one side I'll need to edit every single page I archive to keep it consistent in appearance with the 500+ story pages already on my site. Depending on what the debate concludes I might be lobbying for a "Convert to Archive" button somewhere that creates a page suitable for offsite storage.

All that said, on with the specifics:


I like the margins, but for me the ideal with is 90-95%. Anything more makes small window browsing or blackberry browsing very irritating. I'd like to see this as a user-customisable option and I'd like default to be 95%


I prefer the horizontal material at the top. For story posts this seems the right "intro" - a banner image, then the title and credits, then the story. The reply button at the bottom is important as well, because that should be the next natural response of anyone having read the content.

I appreciate the question of horizontal space saving, but actually the vertical space loss is much greater for story-length posts, especially if they are printed out (and the black band there is murder on printer cartidges). I also find the not-quite-black band down the side of the page intrusive, and it tends to clash with some colours -lightslategrey, for example.

The top of the horizontal page could be tidied, though. A smaller size for the banner (scaled down from the full one on the main board) might allow poster details to fit to left and right of it. A set of option buttons for reply and print etc might look better and pack neater than the current text links.

For this one I support the "traditional" layout for posts as default, with the sidebar version as a selectable option. If you are offering users choices of background colour and default fonts as well then the sidebar colour should also be customisable. Reply, print, and other links should then appear in the sidebar at top and bottom.


I agree that it's better to have micros disabled by default. However, it should be a customisable option in the user settings.


How does CSS affect pages I lift to the Homepage of Doom?

I'd want to live with the non-underlined Times New Roman text for a few days to evaluate how it looks and works before commenting about the loss of underlined links. I think I'd prefer all first-in-thread postings to be underlined just for emphasis. I'm not a fan of the coloured spots, which again divert attention from the stuff we're supposed to be looking at - the messages.


I was happy with the previous system of indenting quoted material and placing it in a paler colour. The > symbol has become fairly well understood as referring to previous quoted text. I think the smaller font may prove difficult for readers with smaller screens (Wii etc.) so I'd make that an option rather than default.


I find the highlighting very distracting as I scroll down, since it highlights and draws my attention to whatever random bit the cursor happens to be on as a I mouse-wheel down, not on the thing I'm looking for. I'd be willing to sacrifice rich text underlining in title lines in exchange for losing the highlights.


This isn't a feature I'm likely to use, but I think it's a useful addition generally. The long-awaited spellchecker must be next!


The links and buttons at the top of the main page could be revised and smartened. At the moment we have random click links all over the place - the login link at top right, five links to support pages at middle right, thread display to bottom left, moderator contact link bottom right, then the post-search - RSS etc links beneath that, with the previous pages links to the side. The eye gets dragged all over the place and there's no sense of design. There has to be a more elegant way of presenting all those things.

We have some talented graphics people right here on the board. Why don't we get them to suggest some way of simplifying the top-of-page layout?

For commercial application, of course, the more customisable colour, font, size, layout etc is the more powerful and competetive a tool the software becomes.


The question of drawing people's attention to posted stories and art is at the forefront of my mind. I wonder if we could find a way to add a "This Week's Stories and Art" list somehow - a roll-down menu added to the other (smartened up) links at the top of the board that offers direct links (or opens new windows to) any story that's been posted in the last eight days. Folks could either indicate if their new post was a story or art by ticking a box (like the No text box) on the posting form or the list could simply be maintained by moderators. That way occasional readers could see what's on offer and catch up with what they've missed without lots of scrolling down.

I think there's still work to be done on the Archive Search as well. My most regular use of it is to to find stories from a specific date, so I miss the month/year search option. At some point a body text search would be really useful too (one that distinguishes and ignores quoted text from earlier postings).

Finally, in the subject and name lines in the revised posting form in IE the return key now starts a new line of input text rather than sending the message, requiring instead that I scroll down and use the button which is down off the bottom of the screen. This needs correcting.

I'd be willing to forefeit the banner on the posting form page to get the vital information onto one screen


I think this one definitely comes into the category over over-smart features that work against the function of the board. We want people to respond to other folks comments. I'd rather have a hundred space-wasting repeats in no-text responses than lose a single commetn from somebody who gets frustrated by the extra effort of importing text to comment on.

I'd suggest a different technical fix, if possible, where the posting form checks if any alternations have been made to the quoted body text and simply deleted the body text if its unchanged from the posting ahead of it in the thread (and maybe even checks the no text box as a bonus). That way if folks ignore the quoted text it goes away and if they want it they keep it.

Attachments

PVBtop.jpg (800 x 882)

You changed the margin width? It's not causing any noticable difficulties here.


I found it simpler to actually read the information before the format changed, and it seems to waste a lot of space going top to bottom only to present a reletavely small amount of information. All in all I have learnt to ignore it and no longer care if it stays or goes though I understand that it might be somewhat problematic for other people.


I guess some new posters might be slightly put off by some of the micros, or simply sent into despair by the idea of having to learn about so many caracters.


It needs changin to a manageable size as soon as possible, it makes reading difficult.


Sounds a bit complicated. I'm not sure if going to all that trouble is worth not having to tell all the unwanted text to go away.

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As you've noticed, there have been a lot of changes to the board operation and format lately.  I'm going to address a few of them, and I'd like comments on what you think about it.

> From Ian's comments on the matter: > >

Margin Width Changes:  I've always posted stories using a table that takes up about 75% of the page width.  I've always been taught that it makes the text easier to read when it's not spread from margin to margin, like in a hardcover book.  I decided to give everyone else the same advantage, so I narrowed the display area (see sidebar info below).  Questions or comments on this?

>

 

Love it. Much easier to read and eye friendly, which helps the eyeballs considerably.

 

Sidebar with Poster Details:  As mentioned above, the display area was narrowed.  But then I had a long page vertically with lots of empty space horizontally.  That made posts harder to read because you had to scroll just to get past the poster info at the top.  So I made more efficient use of space and moved the poster info to the empty space on the side.  At first, the wrong side - it interrupted the flow of reading on the left - so I moved it to the right margin.  Questions or comments on this?

 

Works for me. Nice job

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Revised Page Top Without Micros:  I loaded the PVB at an Apple Store, and the first thing I saw was Pantsless Nats and Lisa.  While that doesn't bother me particularly, it made me conscious of who was standing behind me.  So I thought, maybe a lot of people aren't checking the PVB at work because it's not work-safe enough.  I made a judgement call to improve the visitors' experience by removing them.  Questions or comments on this?

 

I'm sick of them, and wish I'd never started the damned things at times. I've shoved the TMB ones to the bottom too. A great improvement (especially when reading from a PocketPC or PSP)

>

The New Default Main-Page Font:  That's not permanent.  I'm transitioning the pages from built-in font coding to CSS (Cascading Style Sheets) so I don't have to modify the software code every time I want to change a font or font size.  I picked Arial because the default font was Times and I wanted a visible change so I knew it was working.  I'll be changing it to Times shortly.  Questions or comments?  Fonts you want to see?

 

I'm not really fussy over fonts in general. I have my settings and they seem to stay out, so I'm more than happy.

>

New Reply Quote Format:  I tried to make quotes stand out more in posts by making them smaller and putting a border around them.  Unfortunately that became obsolete with Rich Text, because I'm going to have to change the quoting system entirely.  See below.  Questions or comments?  (see below for more on quoting)

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Haven't seen it yet, but sounds good in theory.

 

Automatic Highlighting on the Main Page:  I added that via CSS because I removed the Underline from threads.  Why?  Because Rich Text allows you to add Underline to Subject lines, and you'll never see it if the underline is already there.  I eiher have to put the Underline back into the threads or remove it from Rich Text.  The Highlighting allows you to see that the threads are still selectable.  The color is not permanent, I just grabbed one at random from Photoshop.  Questions or comments?  Style or color of highlight you'd like to see?

 

I like the highlight, it feels like I'm browsing from the PSP. It can cause invisible/unreadable subject lines but that's simply a matter of moving the cursor anyway so..no real pref for colors. Whatever works with the theme of the board.

 

Rich Text Options:  Right now the Rich Text editor automatically opens if:  a) The post you're replying to is Rich Text; b) You have Javascript enabled; c) It's not disabled in your Profile; d) It's enabled by default in your profile.  Eventually there will be a cookie-saved option to turn it off so those without Profiles can make it go away.  Questions or comments on the Rich Text behavior?

 

You mean the green box of font and text options? Well, I can't seem to unbold but italics strikeout and underline seem ok.

>

Other Graphical Styles You might want to see:   Is there anything else you'd like to see visually on the board?  Questions or comments?

 

Nope, it looks great.

>

Any other Features you would like to see here?  Anything you can think of or have seen at other boards that you're dying to see here?  Questions or comments?

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More on Quoting:  The old style of quoting (pasting the entire post you're replying to into new replies) was inherited from the ancient wwwboard, the same software Comicboards is based on.  Problem is most replies posted to the board don't need quoted text at all.  It's just taking up space there for no reason, unless you've taken the time to clear it out.  So I propose changing the behavior.

>

The proposal is this:  When you post a reply, the Message area is empty.  If you wish to quote text, you can do one of three things:  Type something like

Quote:
blah blah

, you can select text from the original post shown at the bottom and copy and paste it between

Quote:
and

, or if I can figure it out I'll put in something that will allow you to just select text and click a link and it shows up between

Quote:
and

in the Message area.  Or possibly another link that will put the entire contents of the original post in the Message area to be edited.

>

Advantage:  Less clutter when posting replies.  You can edit the quotes as you see fit, and you don't even have to use the

Quote:
 and

tags.  You can turn them into a Marquee if you want.

>

Disadvantage:  One extra step when posting a reply with quoting.  It's a small step, especially with links/buttons to do the job, but still an extra step. 

>

Questions/Comments/Suggestions?

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>Margin Width Changes:  I've always posted stories using a table that takes up about 75% of the page width.  I've always been taught that it makes the text easier to read when it's not spread from margin to margin, like in a hardcover book.  I decided to give everyone else the same advantage, so I narrowed the display area (see sidebar info below).  Questions or comments on this?

 

I think it's a good idea.

 

 

>Sidebar with Poster Details:  As mentioned above, the display area was narrowed.  But then I had a long page vertically with lots of empty space horizontally.  That made posts harder to read because you had to scroll just to get past the poster info at the top.  So I made more efficient use of space and moved the poster info to the empty space on the side.  At first, the wrong side - it interrupted the flow of reading on the left - so I moved it to the right margin.  Questions or comments on this?

 

I'm ok.

 

 

 

>Revised Page Top Without Micros:  I loaded the PVB at an Apple Store, and the first thing I saw was Pantsless Nats and Lisa.  While that doesn't bother me particularly, it made me conscious of who was standing behind me.  So I thought, maybe a lot of people aren't checking the PVB at work because it's not work-safe enough.  I made a judgement call to improve the visitors' experience by removing them.  Questions or comments on this?

 

We make a new Lisa, remove Nats without pants and BRING-THEM-BACK!

This is a story medium, and it helps our readers to visulize what the authors want.

 

Now, I removed my Parodyverse Micros site two years ago and NO ONE noticed or cared. I've moved on from micros and unless I clone myself I won't be able to return to it.  But, I still love seeing them.  I might be alone in this since no one realized the site is gone now.

 

EDIT: Wow, Jay and Gav have a point. I guess the micros time is done. Good enough. They really made me feel guilty for never finishing them anyway.

Keep them gone.

Micros are dead.

 

>The New Default Main-Page Font:  That's not permanent.  I'm transitioning the pages from built-in font coding to CSS (Cascading Style Sheets) so I don't have to modify the software code every time I want to change a font or font size.  I picked Arial because the default font was Times and I wanted a visible change so I knew it was working.  I'll be changing it to Times shortly.  Questions or comments?  Fonts you want to see?

 

I'm ok with it.

 

>New Reply Quote Format:  I tried to make quotes stand out more in posts by making them smaller and putting a border around them.  Unfortunately that became obsolete with Rich Text, because I'm going to have to change the quoting system entirely.  See below.  Questions or comments?  (see below for more on quoting)

 

No opinion.

 

 

 

>Automatic Highlighting on the Main Page:  I added that via CSS because I removed the Underline from threads.  Why?  Because Rich Text allows you to add Underline to Subject lines, and you'll never see it if the underline is already there.  I eiher have to put the Underline back into the threads or remove it from Rich Text.  The Highlighting allows you to see that the threads are still selectable.  The color is not permanent, I just grabbed one at random from Photoshop.  Questions or comments?  Style or color of highlight you'd like to see?

 

No opinion.

 

 

>Rich Text Options:  Right now the Rich Text editor automatically opens if:  a) The post you're replying to is Rich Text; b) You have Javascript enabled; c) It's not disabled in your Profile; d) It's enabled by default in your profile.  Eventually there will be a cookie-saved option to turn it off so those without Profiles can make it go away.  Questions or comments on the Rich Text behavior?

 

 

The subject line still bothers me. My arrow keys don't do squat and I still can't access the entire line for editing parts or all of it. It frustrates me greatly.

 

>The proposal is this:  When you post a reply, the Message area is empty.  If you wish to quote text, you can do one of three things:  Type something like Quote: blah blah , you can select text from the original post shown at the bottom and copy and paste it between Quote: and , or if I can figure it out I'll put in something that will allow you to just select text and click a link and it shows up between Quote: and in the Message area.  Or possibly another link that will put the entire contents of the original post in the Message area to be edited.

 

Wiblk would love for the prior message to be removed becuase he downloads all these useless copies beccuase some people can't click "no text" for some strange reason. They type a two word reply and he's stuck with 20+ copies of a ginormous story.

 

On the other hand, replying to this poll is the perfect example why the previous text should remain. I wouldv'e forgotten to copy the poll and paste it here.

 

So I vote keep it. Sorry Wilard.

 

>

>

Often, when I hit "Post Message", I get a page that tells me basicly that it can't find the internet page. When I refresh I get a MANGA COOL banner and I have to go back to the PV where I do not see my post. So I post again.

I'm getting really sick of this.

Sorry about the delay in replying, a truck tore down my cable line and my only slow backup internet access was interrupted by angry phone calls to the cable company.



Plus people in general crave customization. The board software won't be all that marketable without it.



There already is one in every post. The "Printable" link at the top eliminates most images and switches to a "high contrast" layout. I haven't really looked at it heavily though so it may need more image elimination.

Only thing I didn't think of is the possibility of exporting the main page or multiple messages at once.



The good news is I have a Playstation Portable and now an iPhone as well. You'll see a lot more features aimed at small devices eventually like auto-scaling images, sliding display elements, and auto-elimination of items to save screen space.

Ironically, I discovered that the current layout is easier to read story text on a small device - because the most annoying part of reading on a small display is paging right and left trying to catch all of the text. The narrower the text area is the easier it is to read. It was part of the motivation for reducing the space.

As to whether I can add more separation between the text and info bar to avoid letting it become a distraction, that's another matter. Or perhaps make it fixed and put the text in an IFRAME so it can be paged independently of the bar. Or shove a narrow bar just above the text and use mouseover to make the poster info to appear (but then there's the risk of someone with a huge name screwing it up).

btw, I also experimented with making the message reader pop up instead of going to another page. No banner, no frills, just a small pop-up window with the message text. No reply list either, because the replies are still sitting behind it. The problem with that approach was the tendency of the window to accidentally end up behind the main window, letting people think it's broken. Plus without using Javascript there's no way to control the size of the window, making it possibly take up the whole screen, letting people think they're locked into the message text with no escape.



Here's the problem with the vertical bar at the top that seemed to be constant:  Text is vertical.  That means as long names, large text, and long subjects start to add up the horizontal bar at the top becomes so large that it takes up a whole page by itself. If the banner is large enough it's nearly a page and a half before the story text.  On a small portable device it can seem like an eternity before you get there.  

Good!

Noted.

  > I like the highlight, it feels like I'm browsing from the PSP. It can cause invisible/unreadable subject lines but that's simply a matter of moving the cursor anyway so..no real pref for colors. Whatever works with the theme of the board.

I might change that to a floating underline instead.

 

 

That's possible but I'll wait until I get icons to replace the links for that.

I'm still not entirely sure what you're trying to do.  I tested text selection, moving with the arrow keys, and it seems to work for me.  The old format also didn't show the entire line at once, you had to move back and forth.  Or did you get it to show the entire line somehow?

Actually you're getting hit with 3 bugs at once. The server has some kind of problem that's causing the connection errors. When you return to the form Internet Explorer cuts off all the data and tries to submit it empty (it's the only browser which has that bug!) which causes the posting script to display a 404 error. And then when you hit back, Internet Explorer shows you an old cached page (not the only browser which does that).

>

> I'm still not entirely sure what you're trying to do.  I tested text selection, moving with the arrow keys, and it seems to work for me.  The old format also didn't show the entire line at once, you had to move back and forth.  Or did you get it to show the entire line somehow?

I learned the arrow trick. I suppose I'll try again this Friday with CTP and see how it works.
I scrolled from side to side before. I'm just not used to this way. I'll give it a try a few times.

You have a life of torment.


For me anything that makes the pages less easy to archive and read later offline is a big negative. I'm going to have to manually edit every single page I want to present on my own site in future, which is a major drag.


I don't really follow that, but if it means that my experience using a normal browser is degraded to benefit an occasional user not using a PC I'm selfish enough to want my needs to prevail.


It's really a question of how the default state presents itself. I don't expect to ever see anything other than the default layout.


I think the fun for some readers was actually the lottery of line-ups that appeared each time they visited the site. I don't think a seperate page would have the same following.


That sounds like I'd have to mess around with every single one of the hundreds of pages I store every year. I'm more lilely to just not store them.


Again. I'd like to evaluate it.


Artists learn to live with criticism.


Whatever previous system you used didn't have a problem with this, and was therefore superior for my needs.